Child taken from womb? Truth into darkness....

[LakeDistrictBabe]

Ok, the old thread is nearly full. If you read the other three, I don't need to re-write everything again ;)

But you know I am referring to the case involving an Italian mother and the British social services.
Opinions welcome.

I believe he is saying that AP's baby has not been repatriated (as contrasted with returned) to Italy and still is not being repatriated even today so as to help Essex meet their adoption targets.

That could only have happened if they also brought AP's Italian lawyer on side and got him to lead her to believe she could fight for her child in the court system of Italy.

Is he in the conspiracy too now ? Is he the latest recruit to be uncovered ?

Judges here made it very clear they had no judridiction based on the principles of ITALIAN law, when they archived the case in September.

If in all the time that has passed nobody over here mentioned to the mother she was using the wrong court system before the Trib. do Min. Roma drew a line under the case, you are talking about an international conspiracy on a european level to snatch babies ... for Essex LA.

Holly, RTFT. People living in Italy have explained at some length that adoptions don't happen there. Children in care there remain in the care system. If this child went back to Italy she would almost certainly spend her life in a children's home or maybe being shunted around foster carers. Because there is a high degree of racial prejudice and this child is mixed race, she would be particularly disadvantaged. Do you seriously think that is better for her than being placed with loving adoptive parents, wherever they may be.

And if you think British citizenship is a burden, you've been reading too many right wing tabloids.

As I doubt that Holly is posting from the Ukraine or North Korea, I will treat her views on British citizenship with a slight snort of contempt.

you are talking about an international conspiracy on a european level to snatch babies ... for Essex LA

Everyone's a lizard baby, that's the truth

i've PMd a few people with some info (nothing exciting sorry) please check your inbox! happy to repost the same here if appropriate

Got it. Will do am.

And thank you. That must have taken an awful lot of effort to achieve. Really grateful. And it is quite exciting actually. That's a break through.

not really

www.itv.com/news/2013-12-19/mps-post-almost-a-million-tweets-in-2013/

I have just sent the following email

Dear Mr Farron

For at least three years now I have had serious concerns about the activities of Mr John Hemming MP.

He ‘advises’ and ‘helps’ the vulnerable on the basis of his belief that government targets exist to ‘snatch’ babies from loving families to meet adoption targets.

I sent a detailed letter to Nick Clegg in 2012 and was disappointed not to receive even the courtesy of an acknowledgment.

Mr Hemming’s recent activities on the mumsnet forum speak for themselves.

I find his behaviour bizarre and shocking, in particular his recent breach of a court order.

I will forward you the email I sent to Essex County Council about this.

Regards

Thanks WestMorland :)

Have replied.

Just caught up with what those references to the food bank debate are about. You really have to be in some sort of moral vacuum to vote against the motion in that debate. And guess whose name is on the list of shame?

in all seriousness though if any lurkers want to express any concerns without posting on here they have a range of options including:

contacting your own MP via twitter/email/facebook
contacting the whips office
contacting president of the lib dem party Tim Farron on [email protected]
contacting any other senior/ interested lib dems
just talk about it on social media and create debate

Good night all.

I suggest

#ResignHemming as our collective hashtag. But bear in mind about the misleading re public status of Italian extract.

Perhaps the more tactful should choose one.

Me too, night, it's 1.30 here.

Well JH seems to have at least learned to be a little more careful what he says on this thread as he has refused to answer Spero's question about whether he thinks all the Judges that she names are liars. Even he probably realises it would be unwise to comment on this, though his lack of comment says it all really. Although he never answers questions, ever.

If he thinks that he has got a point that he can prove (because even he must know that the vast majority of his assertions cannot be proved) he is like a dog with a bone, and this is why he continues to claim that Spero has said that adoption targets are non-existent. He did something similar with me on another thread a couple of years ago.

Claig I see you are back. You ask about adoption targets. Yes there are targets set by the government for LA Children's Services to successfully place children who are already LookedAfter by the LA for adoption, in order to give them the opportunity of the permanence and stability that all children deserve. There is nothing secret about it, and some LAs have indeed improved on this issue and have met government targets. I believe that they are then allowed further funding from the government.

What we are all angry about is that JH claims that babies are snatched from loving parents to meet the adoption targets set by the government, which is patent nonsense. Of course there will be babies amongst the cohort of children awaiting adoption, but they will have been removed from their parents by a Court Order and a Judge will have made the necessary Order (called a Placement Order) to allow the baby or child to be adopted.

You might be aware of other targets set by the government. The NHS has all sorts of targets - patients should be seen within 4 hours of registering at A & E, and I'm sure someone with knowledge of the NHS could tell us about additional targets. GP surgeries have targets for identifying patients with raised cholesterol and offered drugs to combat this, as it is cost effective.

Schools have all sorts of targets set by the government and inspected by OFSTED. Again anyone with a knowledge of the education system could advise on this.

However neenypops, if they have been intentionally not repatriating this baby, when she is clearly not British - being of an Italian mother and an African father then - having been caught red handed in one act of malice, they really lose the benefit of the doubt as to their good behaviour in their other secret cases. Now don't they?

It's not enough that justice is done to this one foreign baby when, eventually, she is repatriated (as she must be) and regains her Italian heritage and culture. Justice must be seen to be done, not just to this one baby, but to everyone. These Star Chambers must be abolished. It cannot stand that people are said to be mental and don't even get a chance to defend themselves by confronting their accusers.

If this child went back to Italy she would almost certainly spend her life in a children's home or maybe being shunted

And how is she to get Italian culture, and perhaps one day be reunited with her sisters if she is secretly adopted in Britain? You know it is arrogant in the most jingoistic way to suggest that British social services are better than Italian social services FOR AN ITALIAN CHILD.

This child is Italian, keeping her in Britain is a travesty regardless of whether some British busy-body thinks a life in Britain would be "better for the child" than her own country, heritage, culture and language. Britain is not better (or worse) than Italy, it is just different. Material things are not everything.

She is half Italian half Senegalese. Why do you persist in relying solely on her European heritage?

I would be interested if you could identify the 'malice' behind decisions made according to the statutory provisions of both the Mental Capacity Act and the Children Act.

Do you assert that both the medical profession AND the lawyers were guilty of 'malice' ? Or is it just the lawyers?

Holly

Not one entity or member of the child's extended family or authority figure or the father take any steps to offer the child a home or placement here. You can tell by the void where a list of "steps taken to claim the child" should be. The only way to deny that is to take the extrodinary step of including Italian SS in the Great Essex LA Babysnatching Conpsiracy. Becuase it is a matter of record that they liased extensively with Essex.

Italian SS have to do everything in quadruplet and they do not have localised free rein (becuase that would cut down on the much love beurocracy). So if Italian SS are in the Great Essex LA Babysnatching Conpsiracy, it is on a national level, from the lowest to th highest levels.

The mother did take steps. The issue is that he took step in the Italian legal system, which has no jusridiction over the child or British terroritories. So from the very first meeting with a lawyer, it was a wholly doomed enterprise.

There are two possibilities.

A) That SS, lawyers and other entitities she reached out too misled her deliberatly and sent her up the garden path becuase they are part of the Great Essex LA Babysnatching Conpsiracy.

B) She as told she would have to go through the British system, but was unabe to process that information to the degree required to act upon it.

If you are determined to join TeamHemming as a fully paid up member and want to believe in the WorldWide Essex LA Babysnatching Conspiracy, have at it.

There are limits to the power of debate to enlighten those who have gone 2+2=ELEVENTY SQUILLION!?!! and are loath to give the more exciting opportnnities to wibble and sleuth that go hand in hand with that.

IMO reality's biggest flaw is that is just so much more boring and unexciting that OMG!CONSPIRACY!TROOF!

Some people need the buzz and the self attributed kudos of acting out a high drama, intrigue & supsense film ......in their head, instead of living the actual life they really have.

And there is fuck all the rest of us can do about that. Well beyond our remit.

Well said. We can't help those so firmly invested in their theories that they ignore all evidence that doesn't fit and make up the stuff that does.

All we can do is try and steer it back to attempt to help anyone who is undecided.

Holly - my child is Kazakh (ethnically) and I am white British (if that is an ethnicity). Nice to know you think him living with me here is a "travesty". He is more Kazakh than this child is Italian, having been born there and lived there for the first year of his life.

In case you are interested there is Hague convention on the rights of a child in relation to family life and intercountry adoption. According to the Hague convention every child in the world has the right to a family life in the following preferred order:

Birth family
Permanent adoptive family in birth country (which ironically is the UK but lets assume it is for these purposes mothers home country of Italy)
Permanent adoptive family in any country

If social services (in discussion with the Italian and Senegalese authorities) believe that there is no permanent home available in Italy or Senegal then they have a duty to find the child a permanent home here once it has been determined that the child is to be placed for adoption.

Sorry to intervene with the facts, but the Hague convention holds the right of every child to have a family life to be higher in the pecking order than anyones discomfort about children not being brought up in their birth culture. And I would expect that parents of similar ethnicity or with an understanding of that ethnicity to be sought where possible.

Yoo hoo! JH! I have just found some statistics that aren't made up and come from a credible source.

Care applications are DOWN 15% when comparing Nov 2013 to Nov 2012.

So just what are the sanctions for LA who fail to meet their targets for snatching babies?

www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed122265

And is THIS case am example of the 'malice' of the system? Or did they get it right this time?

www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed122455

In the case I have just cited, it would be awful wouldn't it if the father behaved in the way the judge set out because he had received advice from a person in a position of authority that the system was 'evil'?

The judge said:
. Mrs Justice Bracewell has given two judgments in this matter; in the initial care proceedings she set out in detail her findings in respect of the father's aggression and hostility and of his inability to listen or address an issue. Bracewell J found that Mr N had intimidated the Guardian and had a prolonged history of obstruction of professionals, of refusal to co-operate with authority and of being intimidating to anyone with whom he disagreed. In her judgment in 2005 Bracewell J held that history had repeated itself in the intervening period and she said that she had no confidence that the parents would or could co-operate with professionals. The parents have made it clear in these proceedings that they do not accept, on any level that such findings are merited either in relation to the older or more recent history of this family.

Because if you tell parents that lawyers and judges are part of an evil system, I suppose it is only logical the parents will assume that the occupational therapists are also part of the problem...

Same judgment
15. A recent example of the parents' attitude is demonstrated by their attitude on two occasions when the Occupational Therapist attended their home to assess its suitability for contact. In relation to the first visit Mr N did not agree to the assessment unless his solicitor was present and thereafter did not allow the Occupational Therapist in the house until the solicitor arrived, and more recently Ms N's lawyer was present and a note was taken the solicitor having arranged to attend the house to go through a statement at a time arranged in order to coincide with the Occupational Therapist's appointment. A feature of the attitude of the parents throughout the papers is a resistance to allowing care providers into their home.