Amanda Hutton found guilty of manslaughter

[Rowlers]

Just that.

I find the photo of that poor little boy very distressing.

I really dont think its resources Mrs Devere. Its what those resources do with their time that's the issue here. Dont allow parents to hide their children from you.

Resources are definitely a problem, social services is just being squeezed and squeezed with more and more caseloads being pushed onto already overworked people.

Mrs dv, as someone who knows what it's like, do you think there is anything that can prevent all cases like this? Or will a few sadly slip through the net?

They have no legal right too, it can't be such solid 'policy' when it was missed out of the Daniel Pelka's case, HCP's do not all check bedrooms, they also do not have meeting with the children rather than the parents, two things that would make a huge difference.

What if you arent allowed in or told a child is sleeping. It seems often that SW's are turned away, is it only if you get invited in that you can check the bedroom?

I think you'd have a hard time checking the bedroom if you can't get in the front door!

It shouldn't be up to the parents, it should be a meeting with the child in their space. Similar to a lodger I suppose

I do feel utterly depressed by how many of these stories there have been :(

I would rather social services were granted more rights tbh. I know first hand of two different kids who were returned to birth parents who were unfit to parent them. One was back to eating out of dustbins within months of her return to her mother ('a changed woman'! no, a fucking manipulative sociopath). The other was returned to be mentally and physically tortured by her cunt of a mother and her partner who was basically the antichrist. That child is now dead.

And I agree that there is something to be said for shame. Not silly stuff like people bonking outside of marriage but something about society saying: look, we expect people to behave to a basic, bare minimum standard. If you don't, don't expect sympathy or understanding. If people have problems society should support them but if they don't change with support then it's time to get tough.

Could we make the optional one year review by HV compulsory, and at home? Or is that you much even?

Perhaps if social services had more rights, they would be able to make choices that people in general would be more comfortable with?

TOO much.

Thanks for replying mrs dv. It's very hard drawing the line between preventing deaths like these and not imposing hugely on the lives of the vast vast majority of good parents. Especially if people are absolutely intent on killing their children and are manipulative and clever about it, you'd have to bring in huge powers which would make the lives of everyone else harder too. And cost billions, I guess.

What happens when the parenting starts to fail later than that though?

There needs to be a change in people's reaction to obvious abuse of parenting and in the funding given to social services so they can deal with it.

Schools are a huge aspect of that, but teachers are also overworked!

It definitely is, but for that to happen there needs to be more support for social workers and less red tape.

Because a lot of time is spent in that 'red tape' and it doesn't help anyone.

I think this 'we don't judge' culture has to change too, it angers me when people are accepting of domestic abuse 'oh I know he beats his wife but I still have a drink with him when he comes in the pub' sort of thing. People not wanting to rock the boat. People observing but not, as a society joining together and saying that if we know a fellow human is being abused we will not smile and nod at their abuser.

Have to say I feel really sorry for the oldest son. Poor boy was stuck between a rock and a hard place. He was only 20 when his brother died, younger than that when he was so sick and malnourished. That's a lot of responsibility for a teenage lad with an unstable upbringing. I hope he doesn't receive too big a sentence.

Teachers failed to act as did neighbours until nappies were being thrown in their garden. Apparently the neighbours didn't even know most of the children existed. I can understand that, how would they know?

I do blame the extended family, tbh.
Saw in a newpaper report today that Hutton's father hadn't seen her in years. Don't think it's fair to blame the family for not stepping in to save a child they knew nothing about. I don't go around wondering if people I haven't seen for years are living in squalor with eight children.

In fact I would like to bet that she was never a victim of domestic violence at all.
I said this to dh today actually. I know someone who was accused of DV because his wife wanted him out of the picture so she could play happy families in his house with his children and her new partner. Luckily his daughter was old enough to speak up for him as she knew what was going on, otherwise he'd have lost everything as his word against hers. Someone else in my family was being beaten by his wife for years. She got away with it because he didn't want to lose his children and because he'd been brought up not to hit a woman. When he eventually left, all their mutual friends were led to believe that she'd thrown him out because he was hitting her.
Now I realise these cases are in the minority (and am definitely not belittling DV, having lost a beautiful cousin to an utter bastard husband), but I know it can be all too easy for a woman to accuse a man of DV and there isn't always much he can do to prove otherwise. It is a pretty good way to ensure he is a) kept away and b) not believed when he tries to raise the alarm about something as he's already branded as a troublemaker by all connected authorities.
Of course, the father could have been abusing Hutton, probably was as we don't know all the details, but I'm just saying there is still a chance he wasn't, given that she's emerged as less than honest.

Duchesse I agree with you- god knows what his life must also have been like. The trouble is people so often only often have sympathy when these children are abused and little. God help them if they actually become seriously disturbed by what has happened to them and actually also go on to hurt. It is as if then all sympathy had gone. I suppose life is simpler that way...