Abortion Age Limit - Your Views...

[Salamander]

This news story has broken in the past 24hrs.

What are everyone's views?

SP - fair enough

And Senora is correct
There's lies
Damned Lies
and
Statistics

so it is the same with all things though - to be taken with a pinch of salt (or Lo-Salt for those on a special diet)

blimey that woman came to our school too! actually ours didn't show us pictures but she did say that women who are raped should not have abortions because the baby might help them to "forgive their wapist".

it made me very angry at the time and was probably the start of my feminist politics.

"forgive thier rapist"!!! WTF?!

a very real experience Custardo

Christ SP - that is so messed up

I remember reading articles in Honey and 19(magazines in the sixties!) probably just prior to the Abortion Act 1967 about back street abortion and feeling really sick..i was about 8 or 9 and it put me off any kind of abortion for myself. On the other hand it does make me think twice about any kind of move which would take us back there.

God I have trouble forgiving people that cut me up in the car........

"Of course people with strong religious views are entitled to their opinions, but some have a problem differentiating between sharing these opinions and forcing them onto others."

Salamander, think of the subject matter. If someone believes that having a termination means "killing a baby", then they are not going to say, well, that's fine, it's entirely up to you what you do, are they? I have strong beliefs about racism, and I absolutely try to force those beliefs on other people. Racial discrimination is wrong and it should be illegal IMO.

I just feel that the logical viewpoints about abortion are the two extremes, and this is an issue where we are uncomfortable with extremes.

You're right Becky.

It is just important for those with strong views (no matter what those views are) to be aware of how those views will affect others.

Otherwise things can often get ugly, as we see with all sorts of 'fundamentalist' view.

When you're dealing with the basics of life and death and right and wrong - anything can happen...

"There's lies
Damned Lies
and
Statistics"

Funny, people never say this about cancer statistics, or crime statistics.

People only say this when they don't understand statistics.

actually it was someone who did understand statistics that said that. many crime statistics are bollocks too.

and yes, cancer stats can be problematic. x% of smokers will die of cancer. ok, but how many would have diesd of cancer anyway if they hadn't smoked huh?

prob best not to get me started on this.

Sorry, I posted without reading Jenswish's post - I just thought Salmanda was being flippant.

I agree with you about challenging the stats given. For one they are not unbiased. The interpretation of the authors of whatever report they come from isn't stated and if the report was commissioned by a catholic organisation then the findings are scientifically flawed and discredited. It's really easy for people to build a case without real standards.

It reminds me of the women's arm of Fathers for Justice citing a NSPCC report on radio 4 in order to support their view that 'statistically children are more safe with their fathers'. From the perspective that more accidents happen in the custody of mothers this is true, but if fathers actually had the same access to children that their mothers had, the stats would be very different.

You see how they twisted it to fit their agenda though?

I contacted the NSPCC and asked them if they agreed with the interpretation and unsurprisingly they didn't.

monkeytrousers - I dont think Salamander was meaning to be flippant - he was trying to make a point (about people cutting him up in the car) of how drastically different it was... no one should be expected to forgive their rapist.

And the statistics thing... I know what you mean about how some statistics get challenged and others dont. I find this confusing and frustrating too. I think the problem is we are just given so much information from different sources, much of it contradictory, that it is hard to know what to believe sometimes. And on the subject of rape and child abuse - I know, as do many other people, from personal experience, how much is never reported, so they could never be included in published statistics.

Your information about 'children being safer with their fathers...' is really interesting - I had never heard any of that before. Well done you for actually following it up. I admire that 'looking into it' thing rather than just accepting it or grumbling about it.

I'm sure I've misinterpreted various things on this thread, I'm trying to read it all and make sense of it and then remember who said what about what. I guess I just want to make sure that no one gets upset or offended b/c of miscommunication. I guess it's inevitable on a thread that is this emotive.

No worries you two, it was my mistake, I was not being attentive enough. For that there are always consequenses..

You can get stats direct from source from the home office and the national office of statistics i think. Stats from womens pay at the TUC website.

As a dad I do drive quite differently with my kids on board. My protective instincts sit there vetoing all sorts of things. Thus presumably my hindbrain thinks I'm being charged by a herd of wildebesst whilst guarding my young.

well that's no doubt how most mothers are too DC - I know I take far fewer risks when driving now than before ds was born.

Sorry if I'm being thick but i don't follow Dominic..

Dp always gets cross at me becasue whenever he takes DS out in the car I have to say 'drive carefully'. He thinks it's a bit of an insult..

Hmmmm. So you are more of a risk the children of pedestrians when your own kids are not in the car?

I think that demonstrates quite well how difficult people find it to put other peoples thoughts and needs I the frame when making decisions or formulating views!

me neither MT

Carolinamoosecup

Although I've never hit a pedestrian, I have hit a deer, and it leads me to suspect that being a parent driving does make me more dangerous to pedestrians.

A deer ran out in front of me. Might have been able to avoid, but that involved swerving big time and cars coming the other way, so I didn't even try.

We once ran over a rabbit. We were devastated and drove on in silence. After a few mils I noticed it was getting cold so turned on the heaters and rabbit fluff blew into our faces