Abortion Age Limit - Your Views...

[Salamander]

This news story has broken in the past 24hrs.

What are everyone's views?

Lol - and that fact that the doctor says it and not the mother does not make it untrue either!

I don't think I will read the book thanks - it may just steal the last shreds of sanity I have.

BTW just because it is written in a book does not make it either true or objective.

Now really am off to bed.

Night

have not read all posts but have read as far as Custy's posts and I have to say that I agree with her wholeheartedly.

I agree that an accident can happen, once. But if the trauma of having to go through a termination after having fallen pregnant accidentally was that much, then most of us would make bloody sure it didn't happen again. There is more contraception available now than there has ever been and yet the number of "unplanned" pregnancies seems to be rising. I took the pill for 6 years and amazingly, did not fall pregnant. So am I just one of the lucky ones? somehow I don't think so. There is very little reason why someone should accidentally fall pregnant in this day and age of contraception. Even if you're not on the pill at the time of an unplanned encounter you can even buy condoms in pub toilets fgs. So either the contraception available is a lot less reliable than the professionals would have us believe, or we seem to be more promiscuous and less careful, knowing that the NHS will provide in the event of an "accident".

My dh has a friend whose sister has had two terminations, and both of those wee before she was 19. Her attitude was, "well I can just get rid of it". and she did. Then when she struggled to conceive with her husband, she expected fertility treatment on the nhs. So, expect the nhs to get rid of your unwanted babies, but then expect them to help you get pregnant when you're ready - I don't think so.

As for termination on medical grounds, I think that's a totally separate debate and really can only be debated by people who have actually had to have a termination on ghe grounds of disability, as I don't think anyone can really imagine what it must be like to have to go through the termination of a much wanted pregnancy.

That's an incredibly patronising response, Secur. To suggest that the author is just making this stuff up is ridiculous. She's a serious academic who has done her research and looked at something that most people are reluctant to consider in detail. You can disagree with her arguments, but a knee-jerk reaction calling her a liar is just pathetic.

It would be very comforting to believe that doctors are Gods, who always make disinterested decisions based on the evidence. The results of these cases show that ain't so. Judges grant injuctions sitting alone without legal representation for the woman or hearing any arguments other than those of the doctors. It is shocking that they should collude in attempts to overturn the fundamental legal principle that any person competent to make decisions has the absolute right to refuse medical treatment even if that means dying. In fact the outcomes of these cases show that the doctors were in fact wrong. And ultimately in each case eventually full hearings have shown that the judge who granted the injuction was wrong. But it's too late for the woman concerned by then. That is why it is important to bring these issues to light.

I think the way to sum up what I was saying is that abortion should not be made illegal at all. Its a woman's right to choose but people just need to take a look at why the rates are climbing. Especially with all the contraception and medical know-how we have in this day and age.

beckybrastraps...In answer to your post, I can't help my opinion and my opinion isn't coming from someone who has no experience in this matter, i had an abortion at 21 which i won't go into reasons etc, but my reason for saying that once is a mistake and more than once is wrong is because i feel personally that everyone should be allowed (prob the wrong word) one wrong doing, a mistake like i said, but i know women who have had 2/3/4 abortions without batting an eyelid...and imo in today's society there is no excuse, there are plenty of options of contraception not like years ago.

Now you are prob going to say "why did i get pg?" i got pregnant on the pill, came off the pill after this and used another from of contraception which was more reliable.

Obviously my comments are about the "accident" side of abortions, not the medical reasons.

I can't understand the logic that you can get accidentally pregnant once, but not more than once.

Zip...I can understand where you are coming from, but for me personally, i did learn a very big lesson from my abortion to the extreme that i would make damn sure it wouldn't happen again and if by some miracle i did get pg again under similar circumstances i definately couldn't have another abortion...no way.

I just don't think abortion should be looked upon as a easy way out.

Hmmm. . . let's see, a celibate male commenting about what women do w/their bodies. Yeah, I am SO listening.

Expat...Who? as in zip?

As in Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor. I don't think zip's a celibate male .

I agree that expecting doctors to terminate healthy pregnancies after the baby could survive on its own is wrong. Presumably the point at which life is viable outside the womb is going to keep coming down.

What I am unclear about is how many women are terminating healthy pregnancies after 20 weeks. I would imagine that the figure is very very small, and that the circumstances are not straightforward.

To choose an abortion over other forms of birth control is not a logical decision. Most of us don't even like going for smear tests. An abortion is at best a painful and invasive procedure, may be expensive and involves far more trips to the clinic than just going in to pick up a pack of condoms. This is before any question of emotional trauma. Maybe there are women who don't bother with contraception because they would rather have repeat abortions, but they must be a few bricks short of a house, and probably aren't going to change their actions because the abortion time limit is reduced.

On the other hand, if the legal time limit for abortions was reduced, we seem to generally agree that abortions on medical grounds should still be allowed. However, how would they put into law what was an acceptable medical ground for termination between say 20 and 24 weeks? I am concerned that women who fell outside the criteria would end up having to go to court for a termination. If the criteria was vague, what would be the point in changing the law at all, particularly if I am right that hardly anybody without a medical reason for an abortion has one after 20 weeks.

I suppose what I think is that this is a very complicated issue. However, I think that the cardinal's argument that reducing the time limit will reduce the number of abortions is wrong.

Aah ok lol, sorry

Edam, sorry to keep going on about the Sagan essay but have you read it? It examines the trojan horse theory, from both sides.

Could the reason rates are rising be linked (amongst other things) to the sexualisation of our culture? It's everywhere. It makes advertisers ALOT of money and they foreclose any dissent by saying 'sex if fun, if you don't think so you are a prude'.

We've had this convo before but it needs to be said again, sex, porn and sexy advertising are not synonyms. But what are kids coming to maturity in this environment meant to think exactly?

They should have been taught that sex is fun, take precautions I know I was!

I am a very sexual person although I've never partaken in 1 night stands I've always taken precautions, I've been on the pill most of my life and although the time I had a MC was an unplanned pg, I was in a stable relationship and we were going to start trying anyway.

I've since gone back on the pill and up untill 6 months ago when I stopped taking it to try for a baby.

Why is it that I can be very sexual but have only had 1 accident? I know that precautions have to be taken, why does no-one else seem to?

You cant blame TV or advertising for what young people are doing

why can't you blame tv and advertising?

Pucca, I still don't get the logic, and I'm not sure if the "wrong doing" was the unplanned pregnancy or the abortion.

You CAN get pregnant by accident, and there are lots of factors, not just fecklessness, which determine how likely that is to happen. So I can't see that as a "wrong doing".

And if terminating the first unplanned pregnancy is acceptable, then surely each subsequent event is also acceptable. Anything else would not make sense, unless it is the termination that you see as the "wrong doing" in which case surely no pregnancies should be terminated.

I think that sometimes when we try to balance pro-choice views with a feeling that terminations are undesirable, we end up with fuzzy logic. But I guess in a democracy it's all about compromise.

I'm not blaming them. Just saying they will have an influence. Culture influences, that's a fact. By the same token, I could say you can't just blame women and young people. The environment kids grow up in these days is far more saturated than it was even ten years ago.

And as usual there is a huge amount of responsibility being expected of girls and hardly any from boys.

"Why is it that I can be very sexual but have only had 1 accident? I know that precautions have to be taken, why does no-one else seem to?" So this the the sole basis of your harsh judgements on women who aren't as lucky as you? I'm sorry but that is pure snobbery and prejudice. We all have different experiences of life, and learn lessons our own way.

My god, I cannot believe someone has described abortion as an 'easy way out'. Pucca would you describe your abortion as that?

"i know women who have had 2/3/4 abortions without batting an eyelid"

Okay, how do you know they didn't bat an eyelid? They never broke down in front of you? They got through it acting acting with a sense of bravado? They didn't demonstrate their shame?

That's conclusive proof that they sailed though it? You were not in these women's shoes. You do not know how they got through it or what the consequences were for them. You are making an assumption based on the fact that they did not confide in you. FGS, these are women just like you. Stop dehumanising them!

The reason there is more expected from the girls than they boys is because the girls carry the babies, boys can walk away girls cant. All they can do is either have a baby or an abortion and thats a horrid choice to be faced with if your not ready.

It is not snobbery or prejudice. It is saying if one person can manage it (or plenty more seeing as you say it is such a small majority of people) why do we still have people who use abortion as birth control?!

Saying that people advertising sex is a contribution to people having abortions and unprotected sex. Is like saying movies where people die are contributing towards murder.

I am not trying to force my opinion on anyone at all, Everyone has they're own view. I am saying my opinion which everyone is entitled to. If you dont agree with it, its fine, but I do.

If people want to have abortion as birth control then the age should be lowered, if they are genuine mistakes then I really feel sorry for the position they are in and medical reasons I cannot begin to think how they must feel.

edam, my response was neither patronising or pathetic, I did not call the author a liar. However if it makes you feel better to think so then feel free. (for the record though I was simply trying to close that discussion without getting further embroiled but never mind)

I loathe abortion as a form of birth control & sadly there are lots & lots of women who do use it as that. My sis has done a number of stints in A&E and Obs & gynae and was always shocked by the number of women who would be arriving for their 4th or 5th abortion or coming in to A&E for patch ups following private terminations again following multiple abortions. So, it is maybe not an easy option but certainly an over used option by some women.
On the other hand I believe that women should be able to have control over their own body - up to the point where a foetus becomes viable. Given the advances in medicine for prem babies, it does seem that abortions up to 28 weeks should be reviewed.
I do think that abortions for reasons of non-viability/ profound disability of the feotus are completely separate and should not be subject to the same legislation.

sex is too widespread now, internet, tv, even mobile phones.the media should take some of the blame.

responsibility rather than blame