Spy scandal - anyone bothered by the US government sweeping through *everything* we do online..?

[edam]

Seems Uncle Sam can just hoover up data from Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Apple, Youtube and the rest. US govt is busy reassuring Americans this 'only' applies to foreigners. Like us.

One boffin interviewed on Channel Four news said they may look for keywords like 'Iran' - so if you've ever commented on a thread about Iran, people working for that nice Mr Obama may have been watching...

Oh yes, inbloomin, I agree that if GCHQ has recently been circumventing the warrant system then there is now a serious problem. I was responding to Habba's assertion that "The monitoring of emails and phone calls have been going on for some time".

Of course, we still don't know exactly what GCHQ's done.

My understanding of RIPA is that it gives cascading powers to different agencies - as you say, including the Food Standards Agency and local councils. But I haven't read it: this was explained to me by someone who had, so I could well be wrong.

And again as you say, many have misused their RIPA powers, like when Poole council carried out surveillance on a family applying for a school place. (The family won an Investigatory Powers Tribunal against the council.)

So even with RIPA, things are far from perfect.

(Sorry for partial double-post.)

Halfpasttwo - it sure wasn't kept on a vast database accessible to the US government. My debit card details were not handed over to the US government.

Can you really not see the difference between spying on all online traffic and the post office posting a form to the DVLA?

'communications data' is the equivalent of reading envelopes. They can tell who communicated with whom, but not the content of that communication. AFAIK, under UK law, only certain agencies can apply for permission (warrant or equivalent) to monitor content. They have to have a reason and they have to specify - they can't just monitor everything.

Parsing - the thread is about the Americans and the NSA. They have been monitoring emails and phone calls for years. Then 9/11 happened and the Patriot Act expanded their powers even further. This has been public knowledge and the subject if much debate for years. However, getting the social media companies to cooperate is a new development.

I love how you authoritatively you stated that it hasn't been going on for years. Until the lastest leak you and the rest of us wasn't even aware that the US had been doing this for years.

How did we get to the DVLA and car tax?

As an example of the kind of information that is being mined. People were saying 'I don't care if US spies are reading my MN posts'. But it's not just reading what you post on MN (which is supposed to be anonymous, but hey), it's your bank account details, it's your car registration, it's your medical records, it's your letters to your solicitor if sent via email, it's everything. Not just what you choose to disclose.

And whatever your partner gets up to on his computer at the office.

Why would I care if the NSA knew my car registration? If they want to track me while I do the school run or go to Sainsbury then they are welcome. For those of us with racier lives, I don't think that the NSA would be interested whose house your car is parked outside off when you should be at your Zumba class.

As for the NSA knowing my bank details, all the companies that I have direct debits with know those details as well

I have seasonal asthma which means if the pollen count gets to high I need an inhaler. The NSA and MN can have that info for free.

As for my solicitor, I don't want my relatives to know who is getting what when I die and as long as the NSA doesn't tell my cousin that she is getting nothing then I don't really care if they know the contents of my will.

I'm off to bed now but here is a few closing thoughts.

I don't have the figures but it is safe to say that each day there are billions of phone calls, text messages, emails and facebook postings. With all this data to mine it's kind of ridiculous to think that the NSA would be interested in what MNetters think about pushy parents, Gove or their grabby and entitled SIL.

I'm not terribly surprised either, but I think we ought to be angry about it as a matter of principle and because accepting it encourages them to take it even further.

I can understand people not being too worried about the NSA finding out what they do all day, but as others have touched on it might matter more when it's your employer, landlord/local council.

It's also not just what they will do with it now as what they can do with it if you come to their attention at some point in the future.

As long as you keep your head down and don't do anything to stand out (no protest marches or complaining about your local hospital) then you'll be fine. No worries.

Giving the NSA access to our emails and facebook posts starts us off on the slippery road that ends with your employer, landlord or local council having the same access to the same information???

And by the way, why would your landlord care what is on your Facebook page and/or in your emails. Afterall , the credit reference agencies tells him all he needs to know.

Crowler and Peri make very good points. If you are accused of terrorism you could well be tried in a secret court where you aren't allowed to know what the evidence against you is. How can you defend yourself?

Really?
Could you?

We are scrutinised beyond anything we can even imagine and we have been for years.

When applying for a visa to travel to the US, my mother ran into huge problems because she has lived as a happy hippie all her life, pretty much off grid and paying cash for everything. She found it all came back to bite her in the bum when she needed to apply for a loan one time but had no credit record in her own name.

If you have successfully taken out a mortgage or applied for a visa or a job then you have reaped the benefit of leaving a footprint on the net.

Mathanxiety, what do you think is going on at Guantanamo Bay at this very minute? Do you think all those inmates have been told anything about why they are there, what their crimes are, etc? Sure, there are some bad people there - and some completely innocent people who they cannot tie to ANY terrorist activity.

Securing a mortgages is not the benefit of a web footprint, what are you talking about? It's the benefit of having consistent employment & banking records! I choose to turn those over to the bank, they evaluate & then grant me a mortgage which I pay for by way of interest. People who object to spying are not saying: let's live off the grid. That's a false dichotomy.

Like I said before, there are certain bits of information that we make public because without them being part of the public domain, things fall apart. This full-scale spying operation does not qualify!

... says you.

You and others have obviously drawn a line which is different from where I and others have drawn ours. I don't see why you get to be outraged at people who don't care if the NSA reads our emails and facebook postings.

So Habba is ok with mass intrusion of privacy yet posts under a pseudonym.

Yep

Of course most/all of us don't want our MILs to know that we are bitching about them on MN or our parents knowing that them visiting us is a chore rather than a pleasure. But we are talking about the NSA and not MN.

I dont think she will give us her address either, or even which town she lives in, but I will trry.

Please Habba, can you at least tell us which town you live in please.

... But if the NSA wanted access to my MN posts then they are welcome to it.

I've been told that it's not nice to make fun of the non sequitur things that you post but don't let me stop you digging.

What does non sequitur mean?

God invented Google for a reason

You are rattled again. You see, you dont seem to realise that it is not very nice to be trawled. I realise you are unable to imagine what it would really be like to be spied on. So this is just a taster, and as you say, I have your approval.
On other threads you start saying to other posters "you are trolling", or you start using words like proletariat or bourgeoise, and my absolute favorite "men pespire, women glisten, mc parents are pushy and wc parents are supportive".