Spy scandal - anyone bothered by the US government sweeping through *everything* we do online..?

[edam]

Seems Uncle Sam can just hoover up data from Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Apple, Youtube and the rest. US govt is busy reassuring Americans this 'only' applies to foreigners. Like us.

One boffin interviewed on Channel Four news said they may look for keywords like 'Iran' - so if you've ever commented on a thread about Iran, people working for that nice Mr Obama may have been watching...

Ah, got you.

No that was not me, but you are now rattled because you are having to try to disrepute me.
No it wasnt me!

Take your medication. Now ask yourself that question again. Same answer?

And no I am not trying to 'disrepute' you (is that even a real word?). It's just plain old fashion mockery.

I dont understand the bit about asking the question again.

Oh dear, you are well and truly rattled now.

But there were some serious points in my posts.
And one of them is what indeed is the point of shredding?

And I will let you off the hook about being your neighbour. I presume I am not. You dont sound like any of my neighbours.

But, amd again, this is serious, who says your DD didnt accidently pick up your bank statement for example. Or a medical letter or whatever?
But according to you, you are not worried by that sort of thing.
After all, a spy can now scoop up everything that is online.

I think a new form of McCarthyism could occur. Probably is already on a small scale. You may think that there is nothing to hide at present, but in years to come, maybe after a few more terror incidents and ramped up paranoia, the digital history of your views and those you've had contact with, could be used against you. People lost jobs, were blacklisted and in some cases jailed in the US for un-American activities, often without being allowed to see the evidece against them.

Nowadays, in the case of a state secrets trial, you're not even permitted to confront your accuser because it's all secret. You're not even tried in a court of law, because it's secret.

It all works perfectly with a benevolent government that would never do anything wrong.

There is no point to shredding. It's just a OCD thing I have.

Identity thieves get your details by hacking the servers of online shopping sites or by tricking you into registering your bank details so that the US Lottery Commissioner can deposit your share of the winning ticket. The myth that legions of crooks go through your rubbish is probably being propagated by the people that sell shredders :)

All our correspondence is filed away in folders which are clearly labelled and sits on a bookcase in the study. If my DCs or my house guest wants to have a nosy then they are welcome.

Anyway, weird example. Why would I care if my DC picks up my bank statement?

So you are OCD.
Do you want everyone, literally everyone to know that?
I may stop doing this now, as I dont want you to be upset.

It isnt just houseguests that go into your house is it?
With respect, I would not have your personal details on display for everyone that comes into the house to see.

How would 'everyone' know that an anonymous poster on MN had an OCD thing about her bank statements being shredded? Who is 'everyone' precisely?

Well, MN and at some point the NSA will know that I prefer to shred personal documents. I still don't care.

If by people other than houseguests you mean Mr Burglar, what has this got to do with electronic surveillance?

telephone repair man, dishwasher repair man, plumber, etc etc.
[cant be bothered to do a complete list of all Habbas people in her house]

And an internet is not totally anonymous.
If I keep an eye on Habbas posts, I will eventually be able to work out a lot more about her.
And if she changes names, MN will still have all details.

She doesnt care, so that is up to her isnt it.

SirChenjin, you dont care either? ok.

Yes, having a folder marked 'bank statements' sitting on a bookshelf will make it easier for someone to snoop but in the absence of the card itself or the PIN being available to them do I really care?

And what has this got to do with electronic surveillance by the NSA?

And why would I care if you accumulate personal info that I have freely put into MN for all to read?

Anyway, time to take your medication.

Crowler and Peri make very good points. If you are accused of terrorism you could well be tried in a secret court where you aren't allowed to know what the evidence against you is. How can you defend yourself?

Add that to surveillance of every email you send, every Facebook post, everything online, and consider the danger that something may be misinterpreted - look at the guy who got sent to prison, FFS, for posting a stupid joke about Robin Hood airport, that anyone but a crusty old judge would have known was a joke...

And McCarthyism is a real danger - for anyone who doesn't know, in the 1950s, thousands of Americans were harassed, threatened, had to flee the country, even imprisoned on trumped up charges of being 'unAmerican'. He wreaked enough havoc - imagine what a McCarthy could do today, with such surveillance. Even a US McCarthy on UK citizens, given this surveillance, and as the UK makes very little attempt to stop the US extraditing our citizens.

My only problem with it is a relatively benign administration might be doing the snooping today (and sharing it with at least one other relatively benign administration) (and who knows who else.)

But tomorrow we might have administrations of a completely different shade using the same tools for much more sinister purposes. And whose fault would that be, (well, apart from the bad guys in the administration in question, of course.)

Ours for voting for them.

How would the telephone repair man etc etc know that she had a thing about shredding her bank statements?

I'm guessing that Habba, like many of us here, is clever enough to only post what she wants people to know. Unless the Govt or some other sinister body (cue spooky music) really want to spend their time trawling MN trying to work out where Habba lives instead of targeting their resources at terrorists and the like, that is.

Well, people are taking a pumelling from all sorts of directions for things that they've posted on twitter. It's not just guys out there buying unnecessarily large bags of fertiliser and gas canisters, when they don't have gas fires, who have to watch what they type or google. Mrs Miggins blasting away at her local councillor on Facebook is likely to get a knock on the door these days.

All these companies are collecting and analyzing all the data for commercial purposes anyway, so Governments doing it is hardly a surprise IMO.

When the Woolwich killing happened all the media jumped on the intelligence services for not being up to speed, now they are being jumped on for being too up to speed. Spot the discontinuity....

Yes we need a debate about security v privacy, and what the State limits are - but people also need to take responsibility for digital media use and their privacy, too many people are selling their souls to be able to get a few discounts and put some pictures of their kids on the Web.

The thing to really resist is the view that if you are doing nothing wrong, you shouldn't be worried, as a way of forcing people to share their data even when they don't want to.

Elsewhere on the Internet we have Americans posting that citizens should retain the right to keep and bear arms in order to protect themselves from a not so benign future government. Look at the Jews and the Nazis, they say. What if Jews had access to military style weapons they argue.

I prefer to argue the here and now, rather than look into the future and postulate about future governments or look if the past to a different world.

SirChenjin - you are looking for logic in a logic wasteland.

By the way, I love your nickname. It took me a few goes to get it.

No wonder a lot of MNetters are outraged. Mr Gove's people are coming for you. I bet you now regret posting that you are a teacher and that Gove is an incompetent twat.

What, no visit from the LEA or HM inviting you in for a 'conversation'? Could it be that they are focusing in on important targets like terrorists?

I'm surprised they have the time, what with all the interfering in other countries politics they get up to. I might start dropping words like Iran into all my online posts and see if the CIA come bursting through the front door

Last year some guy/girl posted negative comments about her banking employer on her facebook page. Bunch of crooks, don't trust them with your money etc etc. Somehow her employer was made aware of these comments and she was sacked.

My point? If I was you I would be more concerned about what your boss knows about you rather than the NSA.

Habba, there's been several logical points made that you've not addressed so I'm not sure what you're on about this being a logic wasteland (as if you're the voice of reason).

There's a big difference between people wanting to have guns and people not wanting the government to have access to their data. Also, I don't want the current government to have my data.

I can agree it's not going to affect your day to day and it's not going to affect mine either. Given my demographic, I'm not likely to be waterboarded in my lifetime. But I care about this because it's wrong, and because I don't buy the "24" Jack Bauer scenario that there's ticking time bombs everywhere that this intelligence will unearth.

It's not for me to prove that I'm not doing anything wrong my turning over (or some third party granting access to) my stuff; it's for the government to prove to a judge that I am sufficiently suspicious that they can come and sift through my stuff.

Crowler -SirChen was a bit about Ilikethebreeze's posts about how would I like it if everybody knew that I shred my bank statements and it's relevance to electronic eavesdropping. My logic wasteland comment was directed at that.

And there isn't a big difference. Gun rights advocates don't want a registery of gun ownership since it will make it easy for a non benign future government to confiscate arms. They too, don't want the government to have data about them.

If you get into the issue of gun rights you will see the similarity between their arguments and yours.

As for Jack Bauer , wasn't there an episode where some terrorists crashed airliners into the WTC?

'WTC. Here we come' 'God is great' 'Ahmed, how many virgins do you think we'll each get afterwards?" All this was gleaned from their text messages after the event. I seem to remember Chloe getting a bollicking because she ignored the text intercepts.

Sorry but couldn't resist it. We had 9/11 and the shoe bomber and the guy whose underwear bomb caught fire and you snort at the '24' terrorist scenarios.