Spy scandal - anyone bothered by the US government sweeping through *everything* we do online..?

[edam]

Seems Uncle Sam can just hoover up data from Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Apple, Youtube and the rest. US govt is busy reassuring Americans this 'only' applies to foreigners. Like us.

One boffin interviewed on Channel Four news said they may look for keywords like 'Iran' - so if you've ever commented on a thread about Iran, people working for that nice Mr Obama may have been watching...

The monitoring of emails and phone calls have been going on for some time. However social media companies handing over masses of data is a recent revelation.

Sure, there's terrorism. Some of it is committed by the US and UK. Are you happy for foreign governments to have access to your data on this basis?

There will always be certain things that people decide should be part of the public domain. Kids, for example - we have to register their birth for the purposes of benefits, school records, census, etc. Cars - they have to be taxed and pass environmental regulations and be insured. Guns - people have to prove they're mentally fit. And so on. These are all really good reasons to hand over data, and none of these things are strictly private affairs; they all can interfere in other people's freedoms.

How does my email fall under any of these categories?

I don't think it's possible to have the debate completely in the here and now because by doing that you put the technologically cautious at a disadvantage. The spies can reel off a list of suspects' and convicts' names and explain how better snooping would have prevented this or that. All the cautious can say is I think more snooping is a bad idea. The biggest argument that can be put forward against more snooping is that I don't like strangers looking at my data. Why not? And after that it becomes circular.

So you need a real reason, and the real reason is that more snooping can be dangerous in the wrong hands (but the current hands are probably not all that bad.)

Crowler - I don't care that the NSA may be monitoring my bitching about my MIL. If the Chinese or Koreans wants to listen in as well then they are welcome.

As for your emails, I don't think that bitching about Gove is going to get you noticed by the NSA

Habba, you are missing so many points, that I cant be bothered to correct them all.

I would love to post your family medical records and bank details all over your neighbourhood.

Actually, I have just had a brainwave.
Please post your bank details on this thread now
Thanks.

I see that the medication has worn off.

I shall leave all the "medication" posts go, as I like other posters to be able to see them.

The USA spies have access to your bank details.
And your medical records are available too.
Who do you work for?

I want you to give me some more personal information please.

I will have a better look back and try and work out or see where you live.

It's becoming obvious that the 'medication' joke is closer to the truth than I realized. Sorry Ilike. I didn't mean to make fun of your condition.

Habba, it wasn't funny the first time.

Do you find shit like that works in RL, when you can't make a proper argument? Because all that's happening here is you're coming across as vile.

I don't mind scrutiny particularly. Hey if they want to plough through a shedload of shit about school trips, it's up to them. Bit bonkers, but still.

I worked on the design and build of Europe's (at the time) largest DWH. If PRISM contains even half of what PRISM is alleged to contain, it would undoubtedly be the be the biggest engineering feat the world has ever seen. It took us nearly 7 years to build something which covered less than 5 million people. The government put in requests for data, but they were never given free reign. They asked for it - but the capabilities were simply not there.

The amount of data which is alleged to be contained could not be sifted through in a hundred lifetimes. The shite you post on mumsnet is of no interest to anyone. Not even your friends.

GCHQ et al have forever tracked keywords - and there are much spicier ones than Iran. No point getting ants in your pants about this shit if you've got a purse full of loyalty cards m'dears.

And since we're here, no, the indiscriminate monitoring of emails and phone calls has not been going on in the UK for some time.

in the UK, traffic data but not content of phone calls is physically held by the telecoms companies. Email traffic data plus often content is held by the ISPs. Police and security forces have to apply for individual warrants to get any data.

The warrant system limits the scope of data to what is proportionate for each instance, balanced against privacy.

It is simply not possible to conduct the sort of indiscriminate fishing that appears to have been happening in the US, because the security forces never have their paws on whole telco/ISP databases.

Tracking web usage is a different area that I'm not up to speed on, but IIUC retaining web use data is what the so-called Snoopers Charter would have allowed - and Parliament have recently rejected this bill. Even then, IIUC, this would still have seen data retained by the ISPs, and the state requiring warrants to make queries on it.

(Willing to be corrected on the web usage bit if anyone knows better.)

Trouble is HalfPastTwoDear, is like people said upthread.
The USA, though okay right now, may not be 10 years down the line.

Is the USA the only country spying like this?
And if they are, how come they have access to google etc in this way, and not the other 200 countries?

Thank you for your back up Parsing Fancy.
I am quite ok btw to let habbas posts stand.
I like the public record kept.

"The amount of data which is alleged to be contained could not be sifted through in a hundred lifetimes. The shite you post on mumsnet is of no interest to anyone. Not even your friends"

I wouldn't bet on the hundred lifetimes, and I would bet Mumsnet is already being monitored by commercial interests.

@HalfPastTwoDear

The US administration have effectively confirmed that PRISM exists in some form, but there's still a lot of confusion about how exactly it works and what it does.

These two articles speculate what form PRISM might take, based on the information in the public domain and a comparison with the older "Carnivore" system for monitoring emails: "A Taxonomy of PRISM possibilities", "Reconciling PRISM claims".

Lazyjaney, I am right in saying I think that adverts pop up according to which threads we post on.
is that what you meant?

@ParsingFancy

If GCHQ (via the NSA) can get access to your emails and your facebook messages directly from Google (Gmail) and Facebook using a backdoor or a similar mechanism, then they don't need access to the data your ISP holds.

It's a ridiculous fear. If you don't want scrutiny don't post on line. It is made very clear in the MN t&c s that they own anything you post here for example. As someone said above they will have search engines looking for specifics and won't be stressing over most people's boring email correspondence.

Porto, re internet use - there's a difference between choosing to post on MN and the US govt snooping and making that info available to our government - and who knows what other UK or foreign organisations. It isn't made clear when you pay your car tax online, for instance, that that the US government may well be spying on your private information. It's not easy to pay your car tax any other way, now so many libraries and post offices are closing, btw.

But I only post on the Internet what I would be happy say, for my boss to see, my husband to see. Actually I would be more worried about my boss, than some it bod in the us.

@ParsingFancy
Police and security forces have to apply for individual warrants to get any data.

Is this really true under RIPA? According to the Wikipedia page at least, it's not just the police and the security forces that can gain access to communications data, but a whole load of other agencies, including local councils, Offcom and the Food Standards Agency. Obviously, they won't all be investigating terrorism. Moreover, they don't need a warrant, just an okay from some senior "designated person" within their own organisation. Here's a link to the relevant section of the legislation.

A while ago it emerged that local councils had been using their surveillance powers under RIPA to investigate really trivial matters, such as dog fouling etc: www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/home/2010/05/the-grim-ripa-local-councils-authorising-11-covert-surveillance-operations-a-day.html

Agreed, inbloomin.

I was responding to Habba's assertion that "The monitoring of emails and phone calls have been going on for some time".

Still waiting to hear on the "if", of course.

edam. - and when you pay your car-tax with pound coins at the post-office, where exactly do you think the data of your payment is going? Do you think the old dear behind the counter files it under her desk? Jesus wept.