Toby Young - women don't want most childcare either

[Xenia]

Toby Young in today's Sunday Telegraph magazine Stella argues men do not want even more boring mindless childcare. Well nor do women. So the answer is have good careers as women and then you can avoid that dullness. It is not a gender issue. Clearing up sick is as boring for women as men. Lower earners may well be shunted into that dull stuff and to keep the higher earner man they have to do it but Mr Young needs to know plenty of women don't want to do more childcare either. I always thought two hours a day was pretty good including weekends. Too much more and you'd rather be doing other things.

[breatheslowly]

Is Xenia's obsession herself?

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

:o

[christinarossetti]

Xenia's obsession is that women should all work full time in highly paid jobs so that they can afford private schools and to pay other people (usually women) to look after their children, clean their house etc.

Those who don't make this life style choice are invariably termed 'low earners' or deemed to have 'low IQ'.

The fundamental flaw in this argument is too obvious to spell out.

[blueshoes]

Exotic, it is a big leap to go from Xenia not spending enough time in your eyes with her dcs to them being 'optional'. Xenia does not love her dcs then? Just because you don't understand her choices does not give you the right to extrapolate unfairly.

[christinarossetti]

blueshoes, exoticfruits didn't say anything about Xenia or anyone else not loving her children.

You're the one extrapolating unfairly, as far as I can see.

[exoticfruits]

I am quite happy for Xenia to have a dozen if she wishes- I am merely pointing out that if you find more than 2 hours of their company boring when little it makes me wonder why you would want to prolong it - or go through it at all. Maybe she thinks it worth it for the adult they become - whereas I like the journey getting there and don't want to miss it. Nothing wrong with either- totally equal ways of doing it.

[exoticfruits]

I certainly didn't' say she didn't love them! It doesn't make you a better parent to spend more time with them. My way was just as selfish as Xenia's way - personal choice.

[blueshoes]

So christina, what does Xenia's dcs being 'optional' mean to you in exotic's post. Can Xenia love her dcs if she sees them as optional. Pray tell.

[blueshoes]

I direct that question at you too, exotic. Perhaps you are as careless with your words as Xenia apparently.

[ssd]

Xenia, don't you get fed up with this shit?

[Serenitysutton]

Bit harsh on Xenia. I get why her posts might seem like personal criticism to sahms on here but some very good points have been made on this I believe.

[exoticfruits]

Of course she can! I don't really understand the question. They were optional before they were born- they are not optional now.

[Serenitysutton]

Ie blue shoes excellent post at 21:55

[exoticfruits]

She doesn't get fed up with 'this shit' ! She started it, she knew how it would go and she has been posting the same message for years- I post the same one back. Despite the fact that she gave the wonderful quote last week which I have posted again on this thread- it came from her. We are all different.

[christinarossetti]

blueshoes - I read it as exoticfruits saying that women or men don't have to have children if they don't want to.

That's what optional means ie not compulsory.

[blueshoes]

I don't understand your answer, exotic. Being disingenuous? Of course I mean the children she has, the 5 children that she has, one after another. How can they be optional.

[Snazzynewyear]

Xenia's completely entitled to start a thread criticising Toby Young's sexism and double standards. Especially when he has been sexist and supports double standards. Frankly TY's columns are insulting to all women whatever they do with their time.

[exoticfruits]

I'm off to bed- it wasn't compulsory sums it up.

[blueshoes]

christina, of course having children is not compulsory. How does that apply to Xenia, who has five?

[christinarossetti]

It's the 'it's not a gender issue' line that kills me every time when talking about who does the childcare, paid or unpaid.

[blueshoes]

Toby Young is not a real man.

[christinarossetti]

It doesn't apply to Xenia. It applies to your extrapolating unfairly from exoticfruits post.

[Toptack]

Toby Young is not a real man

Does anyone else secretly hope that TY and Xenia are one and the same person?