Toby Young - women don't want most childcare either

[Xenia]

Toby Young in today's Sunday Telegraph magazine Stella argues men do not want even more boring mindless childcare. Well nor do women. So the answer is have good careers as women and then you can avoid that dullness. It is not a gender issue. Clearing up sick is as boring for women as men. Lower earners may well be shunted into that dull stuff and to keep the higher earner man they have to do it but Mr Young needs to know plenty of women don't want to do more childcare either. I always thought two hours a day was pretty good including weekends. Too much more and you'd rather be doing other things.

[Sleepingbunnies]

Genuinely baffled as to why Xenia ever had children. And I say that as a WOHM.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Sleeping, if Xenia was a highly paid man doing the job she does, married to a lower paid woman doing a job that fitted fairly well around the help of a nanny 8-6, and when said low earner was prepared to be a SAHP if the nanny thing hadn't worked out, would you say the same?

[Sleepingbunnies]

Yes I would. Why would I be happy with someone who only wanted to see his children for 2 hours a day?

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

I don't think Xenia was including weekends in that...

DH and I both commute, both have "career" jobs, one of us is up before the kids to go to work, the other is back not long before or sometimes after they go to bed. But even if you work five minutes from your CM, with drop off at 8 and pick up at 6, on a working day with under 5s, you won't get much more than 2 hours anyway, surely?

[CherylTrole]

Things I have learned from this thread;
scottishmummy HATES HATES HATES SAHMs/ is Stephen Hawkings.
Xenia is indeed a robot/fembot/definitely not human.

[exoticfruits]

I can't see why you wouldn't say exactly the same of a man.

[Ilikethebreeze]

re Mrs Toby Young.
Has anyone thought about the fact that she might WANT to stop being a solicitor and do the childcare?
I think this is the point that Xenia repeatedly misses.
I doubt Mrs Toby Young is being forced by Mr Toby Young to do it [either emotionally or physically].
She has weighed up solicitor versus childcare and thought childcare please.[yes, she may want Mr Toby Young to help out more, no idea]
And maybe she has a nanny or two or three and a cleaner gardner window cleaner etc].
That is the thing that happens to millions of women. They find something BETTER than the glass ceiling.

[Ilikethebreeze]

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/10015889/Why-men-dont-want-it-all.html

Have now read half the article. I just went by Xenia's description before.
It is actually a very well written article.
And insightful of things from one male's pov.
From the half I have read, Mrs Toby Young seems to have him sussed. They sound like a good team.

[Ilikethebreeze]

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/10015889/Why-men-dont-want-it-all.html

[exoticfruits]

I would say that his wife has things to suit her! She isn't juggling work, she treats it like a job and when he gets home she signs off and gives him his turn which he is then doing after a day's work. I can't see that she is being exploited in any way. She appears to have him just where she wants him!

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Thanks, ilike. I still think TY sounds like a prat.

[Ilikethebreeze]

I think you are allowed to think that TY!

[Ilikethebreeze]

She isnt doing badly, is she exotic!

[Ilikethebreeze]

It is curious, now I come to think of it, why Xenia didnt actually link it!

[christinarossetti]

Thanks like. I found that article quite depressing - makes it sound like looking after children is always the poor end of the deal which, secretly or not, no-one really wants.

It's quite hard to reconcile this particular image of Ms Toby Young with the down-trodden, housewifery, cooking, cleaning and sick cleaning drudge that is Xenia (and others) 'housewife'.

[exoticfruits]

If Ms Toby Young is an example of a drudge then I would be quite happy to emulate her!
I think that Xenia takes articles that she thinks are giving her message and doesn't read them thoroughly. The last link she gave she failed to realise that the central message was that WOHM and SAHM were different but equal. With this one TY was articulating her thoughts exactly so she failed to see that his wife had him exactly where she wanted him!

[Ilikethebreeze]

I am wondering of Mr and Mrs Toby Young are reading this!

[Ilikethebreeze]

She is actually doing less work than him, isnt she?

[Ilikethebreeze]

I think Xenia takes the bits of things she wants in life, and buries or hides the rest.

[Ilikethebreeze]

Actually, thinking about it, I am a little annoyed.
The article wasnt linked on purpose.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

What's annoying about the article is not Toby and Caroline's own domestic set up, it's TY's presumption that men are trying to get out of childcare as much as possible and that woman have maternal instincts (and/or guilt) that make them want to do more.

TBF, Xenia's OP covered that.

[FasterStronger]

Has anyone thought about the fact that she might WANT to stop being a solicitor and do the childcare?

why is this question being asked of Mrs TY and not Mr TY?

he is the one complaining. surely he is the one who needs to work less?

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

...and she said in her fourth post she couldn't post a link because of the Telegraph pay wall, which I guess was an incorrect assumption. I got the impression she was actually reading the print version as she typed posts.

[Ilikethebreeze]

Doea the Telegraph have a pay wall?
I just googled Toby Young telegraph childcare and up it popped

[Ilikethebreeze]

FS. Why cant the question be asked of both
Actually, I am really of the opinion that it is none of our business or anyone elses.