Toby Young - women don't want most childcare either

[Xenia]

Toby Young in today's Sunday Telegraph magazine Stella argues men do not want even more boring mindless childcare. Well nor do women. So the answer is have good careers as women and then you can avoid that dullness. It is not a gender issue. Clearing up sick is as boring for women as men. Lower earners may well be shunted into that dull stuff and to keep the higher earner man they have to do it but Mr Young needs to know plenty of women don't want to do more childcare either. I always thought two hours a day was pretty good including weekends. Too much more and you'd rather be doing other things.

[Sheshelob]

I genuinely thought it was a joke thread at first. Some of the posts are incomprehensible. Hardly what one would expect from a wildly successful, fabulously wealthy, impressively fertile, island-owning "feminist".

No. I still think it is a joke. I love the island detail. Genius.

[DeadWomanWalking]

I always thought the only things you needed to possess in order to be a "real woman" were a pair of tits and a vagina! Last time I checked I had those. Although now I'll have to go and tell DH that he's been apparently living a lie for the past 18 years. Incidentally if I'm not a "real woman" because I don't have a high flying career and a 6 figure salary, then what exactly am I? A man? Some weird subgender that has just been discovered? And by Xenia no doubt! We could call the new Subgender Xenias, ha I'm a Xenia then, not a woman or a man.

[Sheshelob]

Can we start an "Ask Xenia" thread, where the guru herself expounds on all of life's greatest questions?

secretly hoping it will be MN's answer to William Shatner singing Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds

I'll start:

Xenia, darling, how would you fix the economy?

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Love that idea Sheshelob.

I particularly want to know about the island.

[infamouspoo]

my kids arent boring. DH doesnt think so either and spends loads of time with them.
Maybe thats why we dont own an island?

[Greythorne]

Women who work as cleaners, nurses, teachers, carers....they are not "real women"?

Who knew?

I must remind al my friends who do sterling work for not very much pay that they are some kind of sub human species or robot or alien.....I think they all very much think they are real women. And so do their caring husbands and children.

Thanks Xenia for putting us right!

[Sheshelob]

Yeah. And whether she has a speedboat.

I bet she hangs out with Donatella Versace and Richard Simmonds. I'd out fucking money on it.

[breatheslowly]

Xenia - who looks after your children while you work? Are they real or imaginary?

[Wandastartup]

His "low earning wife" was educated at Cheltenham ladies college,( I was in her class) Xenia! Good education , good career doesn't always work.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Her children are adults now iirc.

[christinarossetti]

Of course it's 'a gender issue'. Women do the bulk of childcare, cleaning, cooking etc the world over - how on earth can anyone who claims any intelligence at all say that childcare is not a gender issue.

Do you mind me asking the gender of those who have looked after your children, Xenia?

[Portofino]

My point was not about either mum or dad spending time with the kids, more that if you go to the trouble of having 5, it would seem to me that you really like children and therefore both of you would WANT to spend time more time with them. Why have 5 kids and get a nanny and have no hope of giving them individual attention? That is just selfish.

[pointythings]

What's wrong with the middle ground? DH and I both work full time, always have. We'll never have islands or pay school fees, but we have good state schools and the intellectual capital to bring what the schools don't. We own our (modest) house outright, all eat as a family together and enjoy weekends and holidays. DH and I share the housework. It isn't a zero sum game.

Being a SAHM would not have been for me, after 4 months I was finding my brain atrophying no matter how much I loved DD1, but that is how it was for me and it could be argued that it's a failing in me rather than anything else. Horses for courses and all that.

[LaPampa]

"Ah she's interesting, was a solicitor, so potentially could have earned £1m a year but gave it all up to be a domestic slave to a sexist man who earns very little.

She se4ems to be one of those not very competent women though who cannot manage work and a family." (Xenia)

I used to be a solicitor and gave it up to look after my little one as I don't think our household can cope with 2 parents having stressful jobs. I consider myself both a real woman and competent. Don't confuse incompetency with a choice Xenia.

(and as a solicitor I earnt about 1/3 of what my non-lawyer husband does, btw)

[outtolunchagain]

Xenia is a solicitor , just for information

[LaPampa]

I know. But not all solicitor's earn that kind of money.

[LaPampa]

(*solicitors even)

[blueshoes]

I don't see any issue with Xenia's lifestyle.

There are lots of very high earning males (solicitors) in my office who have large families who don't see their children for any more than Xenia. But that is fine because they have SAHMs looking after their dcs? Any one care to ask these men why they have so many children?

I am sure Xenia adores her children. Not wanting to spend more than 2 hours in a weekday with them puts her in common with a lot of men. But it is ok if it is a man who is bringing the bulk of the bacon, but not if the roles were reversed. So many men are relieved to go back to work after 2 weeks' paternity leave, they just don't choose to publicise it to their wives who are left holding the baby (literally).

[ohforfoxsake]

My issue with Xenia is the way she puts people down.

I couldn't give a shiny shite how she chooses to live her life, but I would not be disrespectful of her choices.

[ohforfoxsake]

But this thread isn't about Xenia is it. It's about Toby Young.

Toby Young, for example, is a twat.

[breatheslowly]

I'm with ohforfoxsake. Sweeping generalisations about what people want and how they should live their lives are unpleasant, whoever they come from.

[LaPampa]

I don't care what choices Xenia makes but I object to being lumped in a category as 'incompetent' because I chose to be at home with my little one rather than at work.

TY wants to stay relevant. He has clearly decided this kind of article is the way forward.

[breatheslowly]

I am not convinced that this thread is about Toby Young, not really.

[exoticfruits]

I would think it just as odd for a man to have lots of children and yet not want to spend time with them- I can't see why you would want them- as I said earlier- they are optional.
I am perfectly happy for Xenia to have lots of children, a nanny and a full time career- I just really wish that she could understand that it isn't the life lots of people want. I would go into a deep depression if it was my life and I would immediately sell the island without even visiting.
I would also want to leave my children with someone who had chosen childcare because it is their first choice and not because they are not clever enough to do anything else.

[exoticfruits]

Toby Young is just a convenient vehicle for Xenia's obsession.