Toby Young - women don't want most childcare either

[Xenia]

Toby Young in today's Sunday Telegraph magazine Stella argues men do not want even more boring mindless childcare. Well nor do women. So the answer is have good careers as women and then you can avoid that dullness. It is not a gender issue. Clearing up sick is as boring for women as men. Lower earners may well be shunted into that dull stuff and to keep the higher earner man they have to do it but Mr Young needs to know plenty of women don't want to do more childcare either. I always thought two hours a day was pretty good including weekends. Too much more and you'd rather be doing other things.

Have not read through all of this,

BUT

Xen, if the "answer is for women to have good careers" and all women were to follow your advice, who would have looked after your five children? And who will look after you in your old age.......

Well that is just about the most sexist comment on the thread..... Would you say that to a man - ask him if all men followed my advice who would look after his children. Of course not. The comment is sexist to the core. These issues are totally gender neutral.

Who will look after me in old age? Surely the more children you have the more likely a child might but don't most of us want to be independent as long as we can? Most UK cultures do not want old people to live with their children. Why should the fact you worked 50 years befoer when the children were small have an impact on whether a child will look after you in old age? If you worked the family will have money so that your old age will be much easier. If some woman gave up her career to mind babies she is not likely to be much use when you get older.

" If some woman gave up her career to mind babies she is not likely to be much use when you get older."

What does this even mean????

Old age care is very expensive - care homes, residential nurses, adapted flats. Children who have good jobs and women who kept their careers can ensure they avoid an old age in poverty without what they need.

Is your point that you need your children to work to provide for your old age or their own? I am confused.

I have told my DCs now that they are not responsible for me in my old age-I will go into care if I can't manage. I also don't want to be 90+ years and have a man bathing me-I want a female carer and I want one who has a vocation for the job and not one who is just there because she is too dim to work anywhere else!

Equally if I wanted my DCs looked after because I was working I would want a woman who has actively chosen it as her best career-not someone who couldn't do anything else.

I don't understand these points either. If you become a household druges and spend your life cleaning are you saying one upside of that is that you can look afetr your parents and your husband's parents full time when your children leave home because you don't work? I am not sure that enhances the lives of anyone - it is the model in India and China - girls move in with parents in law and spend a life in service to the old (and children) but I don't think I would suggest it should be a life aim nor that if you work as a woman then your own children will somehow hate you so much they will not be around when you are old.

I think I have pretty good relationships with all 5 including those who have left home. I don't think that really has an impact on whether they will be in touch with you when you're over 80 excdept that housewives tend to be miserable and can make children's lives a misery and working women are happier ergo you are likely to have better relationships with your children if women work I suppose,.

You are funny Xenia! Sometimes so funny I am lost for words!

"housewives tend to be miserable"

I was never miserable as a "housewife". I would love to be a housewife.

are you meant to spend time as a housewife miserable and cleaning? Fuck, I so didnt get the memo. I used to spend my days playing with the kids, having a fag and watching daytime TV. Sometimes I had a beer. Happy as larry I was
Now I have to get up at dark o'clock and earn a penny.

I love being a "housewife". I even do some housework, sometimes :o

Miserable?
Nah.
Bit tired and not enough money sometimes, but not miserable.
I wouldn't categorise myself as a drudge either.
I do clean, obv, but I spend far longer watching buffy repeats and eating choc hob nobs and having long hot baths :)
I also get to go for lunches with my sis and mum, see friends, and have naughty daytime sex with dh :)

I'm fully paid up member of the badmutha why have em if leave with strangers all day club
ft nursery,guilt free,their first word was money not mummy
outsourcing.com on speed dial

As a SAHM with a cleaner, Am I failed or false housewife? I mean one thing I don't do is much cleaning.
DH's brother will look after ILs, thank goodness.

My life sounds ace written down!
:)

I think you may be having a little joke there sm, about money?

Xenia, you always sound to me like something out of an Agatha Christie novel with a bit of work thrown in. I sometimes fantasise you are a high end hooker, like Joanna Lumley in Shirley Valentine. I do have trouble following some of your posts. Frequently, they make limited grammatical sense but have lots of posh sounding phrases thrown in like so many cats amongst the pigeons.

Badvoc, your life does sound fun.

I can't think now any times I have told Xenia that I was so busy as a SAHM that I had a cleaner - she doesn't want to know. For some strange reason if you are at home you are supposed to clean all the time.

It has its moments working :)
Just back from a few days away - recharged my batteries nicely.
Going away for the weekend in July with dh and for a week with the dc.
Might try and squeeze in a weekend in London in August...
Drudge?
Nah.

God, I would LOVE a cleaner!

I think Xenia thinks that money has to be earned to be enjoyed.
That time off has to be earned, else you shouldnt have it and enjoy it.[I keep thinking of her post where she said she goes on holiday and looks round educational stuff, so that she can enjoy being around the pool in the afternoon]

I learnt, probably in my mid 20's that not all things have to be earned.
I come from a very hardworking household.
That they can just be given. Or indeed, we can take.
In other words we have more self control over a situation.

we'll certainly housewife doesn't earn money,unwaged recipient of partner wage

Scottish...
I guess that's the nub isn't it?
Some people think that their worth in life is down to what they earn.
I don't consider that my worth as a human being is determined by money i have earned.
Others would say that makes me lazy/silly/deluded etc
I agree to disagree.

it's a statement of fact.housewife doent work unwaged,dependent upon partner
self worth and approbation are highly individual and largely self driven
and we all derive satisfaction from different things