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Oscar Pistorious Pt3

739 replies

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots · 22/02/2013 13:33

Hope no one else has started this.

OP posts:
diddl · 22/02/2013 16:06

Then for me it beggars belief that he might get a non-custodial sentence for taking a life.

LegoWidow · 22/02/2013 16:07

diddl - I was reading the other day that bail is viewed differently in SA than the UK and that it is more the default position/enshrined as a principle since the end of apartheid - trying to move away from imprisonment without trial of that era.

LegoWidow · 22/02/2013 16:10

..though obviously not for that poor disabled guy in prison who can't afford to apply for bail.

As I've said on another thread, I am inclined to believe OP at the moment. Whilst his story does seem far-fetched, so does the alternative. I'm not blindly believing him though and will wait to see what comes out in the trial.

BeCool · 22/02/2013 16:15

Yes I agree diddl - even if his account it true, he was unnecessarily reckless and his assumptions were (I think) completely unreasonable. Many other countries would give a custodial sentence.

That's interesting Lego.

lowercase · 22/02/2013 16:16

all my sympathy with Reeva and her family.

this is so wrong.

BeCool · 22/02/2013 16:17

Perhaps one of the 'positives' of this sorry sad mess, is SA jails will come under an international spotlight - perhaps something will change for the better?

Maryz · 22/02/2013 16:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DyeInTheEar · 22/02/2013 16:47

Things I've heard and not sure if they are facts in this case: can anyone help with these?

  1. She was dressed
Does this mean dressed in her day clothes?
  1. He got up to get a fan and close the sliding doors.
Does this mean the balcony doors were unlocked? Don't understand how you can be paranoid about safety and armed but leave doors open.
  1. Was his safe opened by OP or by the police?

Poor, poor woman and her devastated family.

Andro · 22/02/2013 16:49

Then for me it beggars belief that he might get a non-custodial sentence for taking a life.

Now THAT really is a whole different thread! People avoid jail after taking a life for many reasons; some perhaps justified, others not so much!

RedPencils · 22/02/2013 16:56

Things I've heard and not sure if they are facts in this case: can anyone help with these?
1. She was dressed - shorts and vest, so could be either nightclothes or normal clothes. Is it summer there at the moment?

*2. He got up to get a fan and close the sliding doors.
Does this mean the balcony doors were unlocked? Don't understand how you can be paranoid about safety and armed but leave doors open. *
I think they were open, agree its strange to leave it open.

  1. Was his safe opened by OP or by the police?
I think his brother at the request of the police, but there appears to be an issue of his brother looking for a USB stick which the prosecution raised. Not sure what that's all about though

Not surprised he got bail really. Prosecution were caught napping. Don't think they'll make that mistake for the trial.

DyeInTheEar · 22/02/2013 16:57

I guess accidents with guns - resulting in a death - are seen in the same way as an accident with a car. Unfortunate rather than heinous and not really punishable by a long prison sentence.

I just don't understand how his defence makes it OK?

DyeInTheEar · 22/02/2013 16:58

Thanks Red

diddl · 22/02/2013 17:10

But it wasn´t an accident in that he deliberately shot into a small area knowing(?) that someone was there.

DyeInTheEar · 22/02/2013 17:19

Yes that's true diddl. Accidental shooting isn't the right description of what happened. He shot with the intention of killing.

What I meant was the reaction to shooting the "wrong" person in SA seems be considered unfortunate but you shouldn't be jailed for it. Which is one of the many things I find shocking about all of this.

OhToBeCleo · 22/02/2013 18:06

he's not disputing his guilt at killing her - just the premeditation

Manchesterhistorygirl · 22/02/2013 18:29

Not really surprised he got bail to be honest. I predict this will never make trial because SAPS have made such an arse of the prosecution and given that they were trying to make political capital out of it earlier on, means they won't want the international spotlight on them to show up just what a mess they made of it.

Poor Reeva, she deserves justice what ever that may mean, but I don't think that SAPS failings will ever let that happen.

That said I'm glad that OP got bail and as for his coach saying back in training I suppose its his way of dealing with it. Old fashioned stiff upper lip and all that.

Whoever posted about empires rising and falling, that made me laugh. I was following twitter whilst in a politics lecture and it was so long winded! (Both the hearing and the lecture).

OhToBeCleo · 22/02/2013 18:47

I don't think they could possibly get away with this NOT coming to trial. It would be an even worse reflection on the SA judicial system than we've already seen. For the sake of repairing their global image they need it to come to trial (and the fact that he can't stay on bail for ever).

Andro · 22/02/2013 19:08

I don't think they could possibly get away with this NOT coming to trial.

They could, if they wanted to hang certain members of the police force out to dry. For example:

Any evidence in the custody of Hilton Botha, or evidence that had been under his jurisdiction declared inadmissible on the grounds of incorrect procedure (that's most of the physical evidence gone, plus any original statements made by OP and witnesses).

Further witness statements could then be called into question on the grounds of delays in obtaining them - how accurate would they be?

The court could then state that the case against OP, on the charge of premeditated murder cannot proceed as there is insufficient evidence remaining to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

Given the incompetence of Botha at the bail hearing, I doubt it would surprise a lot of people if the courts were able to show compromised chain of custody wrt evidence as a result of his (in)actions.

Voila, a get out of jail (relatively) free card for the SA courts and OP.

(I'm not suggesting this would happen, just a possible route by which trial could be avoided).

The other option of course is that a guilty plea to culpable homicide is accepted...no need for a trial then either.

MechanicalTheatre · 22/02/2013 19:15

Today I just can't get away from my feeling that he really didn't think it was her.

I don't know why.

PuffPants · 22/02/2013 19:18

Could he offer a guilty plea to culpable homicide when he hasn't been charged with that?

LadyBeagleEyes · 22/02/2013 19:23

That actually wouldn't surprise me Andro.
I do think the defence went out of the way to discredit the word of all the prosecution witnesses rather than defend OP.
I think, if they win the case, it's because they will look (and probably find) inconsistencies with the police investigation and it could be thrown out of court before the trial even gets going.

Andro · 22/02/2013 19:25

PuffPants - Plea bargains happen in SA, the Bees Roux case is one example where a murder charge was plea bargained to culpable homicide.

mg.co.za/article/2011-09-09-suspended-sentence-for-bees-roux

thefirstmrsrochester · 22/02/2013 19:26

Oh absolutely andro, the monumental balls up that the prosecution has been is a gift to the defence.
Magistrate asked the prosecution yesterday if they had represented in murder trials which were downgraded to culpable homicide. They had, under the same magistrate.
They really cocked it up.

Xenia · 22/02/2013 19:29

You can kill someone in the UK without committing any crime at all.
Loads of examples - driving safely down a road and some idiot comes in front of your car.
Self defence
In your sleep
etc etc

Andro · 22/02/2013 19:30

A cock up of enormous proportions without a doubt!