Oscar Pistorious Pt3

[bunchamunchycrunchycarrots]

Hope no one else has started this.

PuffPants I have been wondering that too...

If he did go for culpable homicide, what's the sentence - did I read 15 yrs minimum?

Just found this article online, answer quite a few questions about SA legal system

edition.cnn.com/2013/02/22/world/africa/pistorius-legal-q-and-a/?c=&page=1

Linking from my phone so hopefully it works

Puffpants, there is no mandatory sentencing for culpable homicide, it's up to the judge who is sentencing the case to decide based upon the evidence. As I think other posters have said on this thread already people have been spared jail time when they have accidentally shot loved ones in previous cases. It all depends on the evidence and the outcome of the case.

Three things that have been gnawing away at me about this case.

I find it interesting that the prosecution have not yet revealed the "motive" yet that they were hinting at. I guess they are saving that for the full trial.

I saw something on Reeva's Twitter feed where someone asked her "When's the big day". To which she replied words to the effect of "What big day, I'm not getting married". I found this exchange quite chilling. This was a couple of days before she was murdered.

Lastly, it is interesting that OP has been forbidden to take drugs or drink alcohol whilst on bail. I have been wondering whether alcohol might have been drunk on the night in question and whether it had anything to do with what happened but it does not seem to have been mentioned. Presume it will show up on the toxicology reports anyway. Apparently it's quite unusual for this to be a bail condition unless someone has a history of alcoholism or was acting under the influence.

I saw something on Reeva's Twitter feed where someone asked her "When's the big day". To which she replied words to the effect of "What big day, I'm not getting married". I found this exchange quite chilling. This was a couple of days before she was murdered.

armchairdetective I'm not sure what you're implying by that. Would you have found that chilling if you'd read that on the 13th Feb? Have you never been in a conversation where you/someone else has been discussing a love affair and said 'when's the big day?' (in a nudge nudge wink wink kind of way).

Maybe I just think it's haunting because I understand (obv don't know if source was accurate) Reeva had said she would marry Oscar if he had asked herand from other accounts I've heard he thought he might have a future with her too- And some idiot on Twitter made a comment on there that they wondered if OP had read it over her shoulder.

I don't know what I'm implying or the person commenting was implying. I suppose it just seems beyond comprehension that someone could deliberately or accidentally (without due care) murder someone they might have had a very different future with

ArmchairDetective - I'm being a bit dim as I'm not sure what you mean re the tweet. Maybe that it's poignant that she's talking about there not being a big day and, now there never will be any day for her? Good point re the motive - presumably though the prosecution don't have one (yet?) or they would have outlined it at least, surely.

MechanicalTheatre - I'm the same as you. The more I read, the more I believe him.

So tragic.

Motive- I read that the Prosecution said they definately had a motive

Re the tweet- perhaps lets just scrub that comment. Think I'm reading too much into that.

I have to lay my cards on the table though and say I do think OP is telling the truth. Yes it does sound almost unbelievable but perhaps I find the alternative scenario more unbelievable.

I do wonder what will happen over the next few months. I presume he'll have to live as if under house arrest as surely journos and photographers will follow his ever move. I wouldn't be surprise if his life was threatened which makes me wonder what security arrangements will be put in place.

I know he can't live in his home but he will be tracked down by the press wherever he goes

Yes, ArmchairDetective - it does sound unbelievable yet, I agree, the alternative seems even more unbelievable. I agree, he will probably just lay low at his uncle's (where he is apparently staying) for some time. The press will be following/watching him like hawks.

I just read something in an article that quoted his uncle as saying that he ate yesterday for the first time in 6 days (probably not strictly true, but I know what he means). I didn't agree at all with the prosecution's assertions that he doesn't seem to realise the enormity of what he's done, and just wants to return to life as normal. He seems like a broken man, in the depths of anguish and despair - understandably.

Interesting if the prosecution say they have a motive - but didn't put it forward.

Oscar ate for the first time - not his uncle, I mean! A small aside - but I guess I'm just making the point that he seems utterly bereft (and rightly so).

I agree that he seems completely traumatised and remorseful. And I believe his story. I don't think you can apply retrospective rational analysis to what must have been a moment of sheer fear and madness (and paranoia).

I'll be interested to hear what this 'motive' is - but given how much the prosecution stretched the truth in the first couple of days ('screaming was heard all night' and 'steriods were found') I'm not sure I'd believe hearsay on a motive just yet.

Basically, I just can't believe that somebody intending to murder someone would shoot through a closed door. It doesn't seem like the best way to kill someone, far too haphazard.

What this has really brought home to me is how awful South Africa's jails are. I have absolutely no sympathy with murderers - but I feel sick when I think about him going to jail, even if he's guilty. Of course thousands of people go to these awful jails every year, but then it's different when it is someone you "know". Someone you've seen running, talking, laughing. I don't mean he matters more, I mean it seems more real to me.

Imagine how terrifying it must be. Something really needs to be done about the situation in those prisons. It is completely inhumane.

MechanicalTheatre and OhToBeCleo - totally agree with what you both say.

BlingBubbles - thanks for the link to the info re SA legal/trial system. So it could be a 4-6 month trial - wow

Hrm, unless he just did it in the heat of the moment, after an argument...

GOD. I don't know.

This is what 'White Male privilege' looks like.

Well said sunny.

I wonder what this case would look like had Reeva been the shooter?

The more I read his story, the less I believe it. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened that way, but it seems very unlikely to me.

Apparently, in SA law, you are only justified in taking a life in self-defence if there's really no other option available to you. If there's a chance of escape instead of confrontation and you don't take it & pursue in order to kill/wound then you are guilty of murder.

He had the chance to escape. He was standing by the bedroom door. OK it was locked, but could have been unlocked easily, but he could have quietly shaken Reeva awake and attempted to leave the room, gun trained on the bathroom.

Instead, he walks down a pitch black corridor and turns a blind corner with no idea of what's waiting there and fires straight into a closed door knowing that he'll almost certainly hit anyone in there because it's so small.

That's an incredibly foolhardy thing to do - and it's cold blooded murder, no matter who is on the other side of the door.

There was no effort to avoid confrontation - actually, he went looking for it. This is not what terrified, vulnerable feeling people tend to do.

Human life is precious and he deserves a lengthy prison term.

Is it what male white privilege looks like? I am not sure that I would have a different opinion if a black male or a white woman had been the shooter.

But of course, white male privilege is all around us. It is impossible to seperate it from anything really. I do very much doubt that a black South African with no money would have got bail today, and that is grim.

And, as the prosecutor said, he was desperate to protect Reeva from the "intruder" but didn't even glance at her when he bends down to her side of the bed to get the gun? Yes it was dark - but no so dark that she couldn't make her way to the toilet without lights or he to the balcony?

It makes no sense. And when something makes no sense it's usually nonsense.

I think he lost his temper - like OJ with Nicole.

But if you lost your temper, would you shoot the person through the door? That makes no sense to me either.

Neither version makes sense.

Also, he didn't have his legs on. So it's not like he could just have run out of the house if there was an intruder. He'd have had to have stopped, got his legs on...by which point, the intruder could have shot him.

I can see how vulnerable you might feel in that situation.

I can't see why he wouldn't check Reeva was in the bed though.

mechanicalTheatre we don't know for sure yet that he didn't have his legs on. We won't know for sure until the investigation is complete as to the angle/point of entry/height etc of the bullets through the door