Oscar Pistorious Pt3

[bunchamunchycrunchycarrots]

Hope no one else has started this.

Sorry, but Im a strong believer that he needs to serve some sort of sentance for taking the life of someone, especially if that is what the norm is for that country. SA prisons are awful but you cannot excuse one disabled person from it because of who they are, there are many many disabled people in SA, no ones there to champion for them. Its a very sad day in society if we give a privelage for someone just because of who they are. Im pretty sure the people of SA will not want to go back to a two tier system.

Wish I could stop thinking about this. Read his twitter to try and make some sense. His lifestyle over the last few months sounds crazy (since paraolympics)hes been here there and everywhere. Other athlete just seem to be getting on with life rather than being a media pawn. Maybe this was some sort of completely subconscious way to make everything stop. In a breakdown kind of way.
Must give up thinking!

especially if that is what the norm is for that country.

There's the rub; the courts have absolute discretion on sentencing for culpable homicide, I don't think there is a 'norm' per se - just an entire ocean of options. I posted about Bees Roux earlier in the thread, he beat a police officer to death and ended up with a suspended sentence, culpable homicide can return a sentence of zero to 15 years+...crazy!

It is crazy, but I dont like the idea that OP can be excused prison at all, sorry that was the point I was making.

sorry again, I mean excused prison because he is OP, right thats what I mean! I think

I can see what you mean.

Under SA law he could avoid prison if found guilty of CH, not because he's OP but because the law allows it. That said, who's to say the judge wouldn't be influenced by him being OP? How would anyone know? Who's to say that he couldn't get a hard ass judge who hands him a long sentence just to make a point about no favouritism? Would it be anymore justified to send him to prison (if someone else would have been given a none custodial sentence for a comparable offence) because he's OP then for him to avoid it for the same reason?

We're never going to know for sure who was influenced in what direction and by what...are we?

Although I believe he is guilty as sin, I don't think I'd subject my worst enemy to a South African prison....I remember watching a documentary that Ross Kemp did where he interviewed one of the prison gang leaders in Pollsmoor. It was sickening the things they do to people in there. It's like all humanity is gone - in fact, it is said that people in there often tattoo themselves as a sign of giving up all hope of life outside of prison. I believe justice needs to be done for Reeva, and that Oscar shouldn't get away with it, but neither can I imagine sentencing anyone to the fate that potentially awaits him if the courts find him guilty.

Ok, I get that running, but what about or the poor old soles in there already? There will be many, disabled, poor, weak, old etc, people who are probably innocent, people who have been found guilty of small or non violent crimes. This is what I cant understand, why ok for one but not for many others?

SA like many countries have massive issues that they need to sort out, what do you do then?

I just cannot fathom a justice system where you can repeatedly shoot someone through a door, and therefore weren't under direct attack, and potentially not get a prison sentence at all!?

runningforme, I totally agree with you. The thought is horrific. I wouldn't support anyone going to prison in SA.

Yes but you can't say 'oh poor OP, even though he did kill someone, he can't possibly go to a SA prison it would be awful for him'.

As dreams says, what about all the other poor wretches in there? The state of their prisons is a much bigger issue than whether they are suitable for OP. The fact they are so bad should provide even more reason not to go round randomly shooting strangers behind closed doors!

Yes, obviously there are other people in South African jails.

I don't really know how to explain it. The thought of someone going to one is horrible though. That doesn't mean I think he should get off. What it means is that I think they need to do something about their jails.

Well yes SA jails are are horrendous but...

Where was all this hand wringing when Anni Dewani's killers were sent to jail?

But because it's OP who might be going to jail all if a sudden it's terrible and something must be done?

I'd say it's fairly obvious isn't it? People are more likely to react to something like this when their is someone they like(d) or respect(ed) involved. No, it's not fair, but it's human nature.

And indeed, what about all the people in there already? What about the poor man in Melty's link?

Are South African people campaigning about the appalling conditions in SA prisons for people who are already suffering them? If not then I'm sure none of them will think that OP shouldn't go to prison there. After all you can't have one rule for white famous people and a different rule for everyone else.

It may be obvious, but it bloody well stinks.

People who deserve it less than OP are stuck in those places.

Yes Donder fair point. I don't know enough to comment on that. Am reacting more to comments from people on here.

I'm not saying he shouldn't go to jail. I just feel sick when I think about him going because I can imagine it easier than I can imagine someone faceless who I've never heard talk or seen smile. It brings it home. It has nothing to do with him being white or famous.

Very interesting thread in living overseas about living in SA.

This is changing the subject a bit...sorry

I've said more than once upthread that I want very much for Oscar Pistorius to be telling the truth.

But something that strikes me as odd about his account is that it describes her doing yoga and him lying in bed watching telly. Then he says they went to bed and went to sleep. It sounds like an old married couple, doesn't it? Maybe he wouldn't say in court if there had been sexual activity and maybe that's all there is to it.

But if they were crazy in love, and she'd gone over there for a quiet evening in the night before Valentine's Day, taking him a present to open the next day, well I would have thought they'd have 'got an early night' iykwim. Two young, attractive, healthy people; it's a no-brainer isn't it?

If they did spend the evening rowing then they might not.

It feels very prurient to wonder about this, but it does have some bearing on what happened, how and why.

Has anyone else wondered about this/thought it odd or is there something wrong with me?

It's very prurient, and quite odd, to speculate about people's sex lives. Maybe she had her period, maybe they were tired, maybe they just didn't feel the need to be shagging every time they had a moment alone. They are/were not teenagers. She was nearly 30.

I was in a relationship at 30 but not married - we certainly weren't at it every chance. People have busy lives, demanding careers, sometimes they can't be bothered or they have other things on their minds. Why on earth does it matter?

Donder, no South Africans I know (my whole family and lots of friends live there) are campaigning for better jail conditions, with the awful crimes that take place in sa on a daily basis - rapes of babies and the elderly - as far as I am concerned those types of people deserve to spend the the rest of their lives in an SA jail.

This is completely off topic but here is a link looking at rape in South Africa.

m.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/17/south-africa-rape-survey

Puff I think 'speculating about people's sex lives' is odd, that's why I was a bit embarrassed posting that.

But it isn't odd to wonder what on earth was happening that evening in that relationship - because it ended up with one of the parties shooting the other dead. We are all fascinated by this horrible story and I don't think it is odder to wonder if they had been intimate and loving before he killed her than it is to wonder if they got drunk or fought all evening. It's natural to wonder what the context of/prelude to the shooting was. It's all such an incredible story. It's human to want to try to make sense of it.

When the trial happens everything that happened that evening will be scrutinised in court and how things were between them that night will be considered relevant by both prosecution and defence. There is speculation now about why she was wearing a black vest when she was shot, that she apparently arrived in, if this means they didn't go to bed/sleep at all, or if she had dressed to leave because of an argument. Today there has been all sorts of shit in the newspapers about him shooting her because she was pregnant His handwriting has been analysed. The press are going crazy.

Please don't make me feel like some kind of pervert. I'm a huge admirer and hope he is innocent of murder, but I actually find the idea that they just 'went to sleep' very strange, personally. I want desperately to believe him and to me it's one of the least plausible aspects about his story, that is why I raised it.

But we all have different ideas about what is normal in a relationship and they are based on our own experience. When the boyfriend I had at the time and I were their ages, we didn't live together and we were at it all the time. So that is my view of what's normal.

It's also very difficult to work out what is spin from the Pistorius camp, what is bollocks invented by the press and what might be true.

I notice now that the Pistorius camp describe her as his 'partner'. I find this odd too, given that she hadn't even introduced him to her parents.

It would be nice to think that the truth will out in the end, but that's very uncertain as well. I think there will always be mysteries and doubt.

You do the crime, you do the time.
Get it in perspective, he's a murderer, that's where murderers go.

I expect Reevas family would be overjoyed if she were in a jail somewhere...anywhere...