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Oscar Pistorious Pt3

739 replies

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots · 22/02/2013 13:33

Hope no one else has started this.

OP posts:
lowercase · 26/02/2013 19:48

You won't be judged on what you say, rather what you do.

I'm sure lots of killers can be nice for a time.

ArmchairDetective · 26/02/2013 21:04

I've been watching old clips too (particularly running ones). I keep thinking if only he had made a different decision/ series of decisions that night. If only these two people had not met one another.

tiredofwaiting- were you on the other thread- the appreciation one. I used to lurk but not post on that one. I've seen a couple of people on this thread but wonder where the other ones are/ what they are thinking about it all/ whether they have name changed or are avoiding this thread.

What a waste of two lives.

RedPencils · 26/02/2013 21:06

There isn't much to find amusing about any of this but that handwriting expert has just made me laugh. What a load of old rubbish.

thefirstmrsrochester · 26/02/2013 21:17

Me too red
What bollocks.

MysteriousHamster · 26/02/2013 22:06

Thing is, Tiredofwaiting and Armchair, let's say it comes out that he is violent and the rest of it (yes, I know it might not), then he was never really nice, was he? It wouldn't have mattered if he'd made some different decisions, he probably would've ended up hurting her sooner or later or someone else.

The fact is, he is the kind of man who shoots a locked bathroom door with a human being on other side who has not shown any violence to him (whether intruder or girlfriend).

It just shows the dangers of assuming things about celebrities or even getting too attached to them (and I know this sounds patronising but actually I will know doubt have felt similarly strongly about other celebs who in actual fact I don't know at all).

tiredofwaitingforitalltochange · 27/02/2013 01:09

Armchair no I wasn't on the other thread, I've come quite late to all this on MN. Was too busy reading all the press coverage, UK and US newspapers, TV channels, SA ones. And here I am after midnight, still pondering, agonising. I too find myself wishing he and Reeva Steenkamp had not met, for both their sakes. It was such a short relationship, how could it all go so wrong?

Mysterious you are right and I don't find what you say patronising. We do feel some connection with these people and it's chimerical.

Nice wasn't the right word perhaps. Yes he may never have been 'nice'. He comes across as nice - mild and pleasant - but this can't be completely real; 'nice' implies insipidity and no-one who has faced his early disadvantages to become what he was could be insipid or mild. I don't accept that his response to being beaten in the 200 metres indicated a 'darker side' as so many suggest though. At the time many thought it was justified, though ungracious. Look at the footage and the disparity between Oliveira's relative heights on blades and on the podium in normal prostheses. Understandable to say what he did, filled with adrenaline and disappointment. He must have been driven and passionate - could that translate to murder? He seems like the kind of guy you'd want to take home to meet your mum. It's so hard to reconcile that with a person who, as you point out, shot someone through a bathroom door. Hence my obsession I suppose. That and the fact that I admired him so much.

When I heard that a woman's body had been found at his home I could hardly believe my ears. Since then the press has been looking for evidence of moral weakness, and there is little that indicates anything other than a fairly normal young man - a love of speed and a penchant for glamorous blondes, hardly unusual. Ditto trips to the shooting range; at odds with his public image but not terribly odd in South Africa, nor keeping a gun at home. My friend who lived in Pretoria was taught how to use a handgun at her father-in-law's insistence, in case she'd ever need to.

But while he may not have ever been 'nice' he may have been good. He may have been corrupted by fame and adulation, or unable to cope emotionally with the huge burdens on his shoulders: global icon, almost single-handed changer of views of disability, focus of such admiration. He seemed able to carry this burden lightly and with grace, but privately it may not have been so easy. But he did lots of charity work, apparently quietly. So many people, many of them 'ordinary' people have testified to this, and their bafflement at this killing.

I'm not making excuses for him, what he has done is terrible, whatever the circumstances. But I can't help feeling sorry for him too; he is a man without full legs. His trainer described him as 'just a boy' and it was easy to forget he is so young, until he stood there in court like a lost soul, isolated, his face twisted with anguish. I think his remorse is genuine. While he must regret too throwing away his wonderful life and at a stroke apparently negating his achievements (because he will never lose the taint of this, even if he is acquitted; it is life-defining) I think he is appalled that he has taken someone's life, especially someone close to him.

I read an article that said his stumps bleed when he runs and trains :( The guy he's alleged to have threatened said he responded by saying 'Oscar, I can't hit a man with no legs'. South Africa has a very macho culture; did he feel the need to overcompensate, did this underlie his interest in guns?

I find it all so heartbreaking. The footage of Reeva Steenkamp happy in Jamaica; her broken parents. The fact that everyone describes her as an 'angel'; why did he shoot someone like that of all people? It's beyond terrible.

But how did he con everyone for so long, if it was murder? Is he a psychopath?

Living in a safe country, it's hard to imagine the undercurrent of fear that must always be present living in South Africa. My parents' best friends lived in Cape Town for many years; they had more than a few friends murdered - something apparently routine in robberies and burglaries. My parents visited a few years ago; they are seasoned and adventurous travellers but managed to get mugged at knifepoint during their three week stay. And how much more vulnerable he would feel, lying in bed or up in the night without his legs.

Sorry for the ridiculously long post. Just can't work it out, and am really trying not to excuse or condemn too quickly, based on existing views - either the natural tendency to hate a man who hurts a woman, or to sympathise with someone I admired and 'liked' (however unreal that feeling may have been).

Whatever, if he did kill her intentionally, I think it was in the heat of anger rather than cold and calculated.

Pyjamadonkey · 27/02/2013 08:10

Well said! That's exactly how I feel. I'm just so saddened for Reeva and her family and disappointed in him. I'm a South African living abroad and I feel saddened and disappointed for my country too. I feel as if i'm taking this all personally.
I do however hope that her death is not in vain and highlights the problems of violence and fear in SA.

ajandjjmum · 27/02/2013 08:25

The confusion you show as you write tired, reflects well how most of us feel.

The only part I would disagree with is your comment 'It's so hard to reconcile that with a person who, as you point out, shot someone through a bathroom door.' In SA it is often a case of 'shoot or be shot' - something here in the UK we find hard to understand, so I can't judge him for taking that action as it reflects the society in which he has been raised.

BlingBubbles · 27/02/2013 08:31

I still sitting in the fence with this one, waiting for the trial to see if any more evidence comes to light. There have been many posters on here describing life in SA, we must all remember that in SA if your house is broken into, there is a 99.9% chance that you will be viciously raped and/or murdered!!! If someone breaks into your house you shoot to kill to protect yourself and your family.... You ask questions later!!! It is completely different to living here. Friends of mine were hijacked by gunpoint and afterwards sent an email to friends and family saying how thankful they were they nothing had happened to them..... I would say having a gun shoved in your face is having something happen to you, bit that's the mentality they were happy not to be raped or murdered!

I know this is different as OP didn't actually know if there was a burglar in the toilet but it might help you understand why people shoot burglars etc.

isithometime · 27/02/2013 08:41

Latest this morning, no reports from "reliable" papers - Reeva was pregnant and announced it to OP on the night she was killed. Story originates from one publication in the US and sounds far fetched to me, all the other versions of the story at the moment are sourced from that US publication

Animation · 27/02/2013 08:53

'if your house is broken into, there is a 99.9% chance that you will be viciously raped and/or murdered!!!'

Is that the truth? Are these the official figures? And who are these people who rape and murder?

thefirstmrsrochester · 27/02/2013 09:03

Saw that too isithometime
It's like News of the World is alive & kicking.

Salbertina · 27/02/2013 09:30

Bollocks! Was it that, a report on SA? Most burglaries are nonviolent tho armed and obv threatening.. Thats based on what i hear/read and stories from friends.

DreamsTurnToGoldDust · 27/02/2013 09:50

There wouldn`t be e many people left in SA with those levels of violence, 99.9%!? I know people dont want to believe OP is anything less than fantastic, but we cant bend the truth to try and justify what he did.

BeCool · 27/02/2013 10:27

Bling there was no intruder or threat in the OP house.

DonderandBlitzen · 27/02/2013 10:31

It would be interesting to get reliable figures about the percentage of burglaries in SA that end in rape or murder, as it is very difficult for people outside SA to understand why someone would shoot a perceived burglar through a bathroom door.

telsa · 27/02/2013 11:01

I thought this report from an African newspaper was quite interesting on ' white middle-class South African paranoia' and SA masculinity

mg.co.za/article/2013-02-22-00-pistorius-south-africa-bears-and-breeds-these-men

quote from it:
Pistorius talked of being "acutely aware" of crime. Of the fear of "violent crime being committed by intruders" in his home ? a post-apartheid narrative, consistently told by white South Africans. Yet studies have generally shown that black South Africans are most often the victims of fatal violent crime.

Manchesterhistorygirl · 27/02/2013 11:10

Guardian article about gun crime and perceived threat. I wrote a long post last night that's apparently disappeared about my feelings about the case and in answer to armchair asking if people from the other Oscar thread were here. In summary, I was on the Oscar is fit thread, but under a different user name. Like others have said I can't square this in my head at all. He seemed do nice and normal, yes he had a penchant for speed and blondes, but so do a lot of twenty something blokes, it doesn't make them killers.

I wonder what else will come out at the trial? I hope there is justice for Reeva Steenkamp, but equally I wouldn't want OP to go to jail in SA.

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/14/fear-arming-south-africa-guns

This website is also very interesting.

www.crimestatssa.com/

Manchesterhistorygirl · 27/02/2013 11:13

The province you need to search in relation to this case is Gauteng.

Animation · 27/02/2013 11:27

Have read it - BeCool.

The last line reads -

'The real horror is in our unwillingness to believe that those sheltered and propped up by privilege are capable of it and our abject failure to place its countless victims at the heart of our concern'.

currentbuns · 27/02/2013 11:30

I hope there is justice for Reeva Steenkamp, but equally I wouldn't want OP to go to jail in SA.

Well, one can't happen without the other, surely?

currentbuns · 27/02/2013 11:33

Thanks for linking to that article, BeCool.

Manchesterhistorygirl · 27/02/2013 11:38

That's the trouble becool, on the one hand I want justice to be served but on the other I'm horrified at the appalling conditions in SA prisons.

Andro · 27/02/2013 12:02

Well, one can't happen without the other, surely?

If he's guilty of premeditated murder, no. If he's guilty of culpable homicide then quite possibly yes.

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