Grayling defending smacking

[seventiesgirl]

Never did him any harm apparently. The tory party are such a bunch of tossers. Whatever next?

I think the pros and cons of smacking go round and round in circles. But my position is it's not the right way to do things ( although I have smacked, sad to say)

The point of my post was that for someone in such a position in government it was a reckless comment, opening the door for people to start belting their kids because "the government says it's ok".

I brought my dc up in the 70's when smacking was accepted. I think each of them was smacked twice in total and I have been beating myself up about it ever since :(
Neither of them has ever smacked their own dc.

I didn't read the comment in it's full context.If he was saying discipline needs to be sorted out and they'll cough if for parenting classes on a wide scale then I applaud him however I suspect that wasn't the case.

OK, the difference between hitting a small child and hitting a friend/colleague/partner... On the whole, you are not in authority over your friends/colleagues/partners and you are not responsible for managing their behaviour. If you are in authority over workmates, you have set sanctions should they do something wrong (docking pay/suspension/sacking). Parents do have authority over small children and need to manage their behaviour - we supervise what they eat, we decide on their bedtimes etc. Sometimes it's useful to have an immediate, effective sanction when there isn't another available eg when you are out shopping with a small child who is behaving badly. There's no naughty step in a shop. The child might not have anything with him/her that can be confiscated as a punishment. 'No TV when we get home' doesn't really register with a toddler. However, if a toddler is repeatedly touching things in a shop and has had several warnings, a light slap on the hand is generally effective (same as it would be for a dog.)

And all this waa, waaa, over the use of the word 'smacking'. FFS there is a considerable difference between a slap and a punch even though both are 'hitting'.

And I never actually said that disciplining 30 kids without smacking makes it easy to parent without it. Parenting is never easy but teaching has made me more confident and more patient. That is what I said.

Suppose DH smacks me occasionally (he doesn't), not hard, not often, and only when I deserve it. Because he knows best? Because he's bigger than me? To teach me a lesson? To set an example?

Hitting children? Is that the big thing to do?

Anyhoo hollering at dd has given me a headache so I'm off.

PolkaDotCircus my DDs were the first children I ever interacted with for any length of time and I haven't needed to smack, so I'm not sure that argument holds water. Having said that, I'm one of those people who do things on an evidence base (I work in research) so when I found out I was pregnant with DD1, I read up a lot on parenting theory and practice. I absolutely accept that this might be difficult for a lot of people to do.

That still does not make hitting children acceptable. I think that the problem is that there are a lot of parents out there who only ever experienced smacking as a means of discipline, so that is what they pass on. But then one starts getting into the ethics of making parenting classes compulsory, funding them, all the practicalities involved in promoting those alternative strategies.

But it all has to start from an acceptance that hitting children is not good parenting, and we are still a long way from that. Grayling doesn't help there.

Cadden I believe that was Sean Connery's excuse...

That depends on how you define "effective" SGB. If you're concerned only with appearances and not on the child's actual learning and development, then a smack may well "work". Fine for a dog (arguably). Lazy, cowardly and frankly quite stupid for a child. Assuming you want a healthy huma being out of it. One who doesn't think it's ok to solve his problems with violence.

Interesting debate.

I've smacked my dc a couple of times over the years, but am generally against it now. Although at the time, it sort of worked in that they knew instantly they had crossed the line.

But what no-one has said on here is....WHAT do you do as an alternative? My youngest dd (nearly 6) can be dreadfully behaved at times. Tantrums, rudeness, hitting/kicking her sisters. I've tried no tv punishment: she wasn't that bothered and doesn't watch that much tv to start with. Taking away toys/books etc: doesn't work, she doesn't have a particular favourite, I would have to clear out entire room. I've tried the carrot approach with sticker charts: sort of works for a while then she loses interest.

So what do you actually DO with a child like this if you don't smack? Serious question as I am clearly getting it very wrong at the moment

and..... the only person going "waaaa, waaaa" is you. Again.

What do you do when the smacking stops being effective? Move onto a strap? or cigarette burns?

SGB I think if you're saying a parent is ok to hit a child because they are not capable of thinking of another sanction, that's pathetic.

Me too Dancergirl with my DD3 who has just turned 6. I've tried everything and she doesn't respond in ways that you would expect a child to. I'm out of answers

I like to sit on the fence with regards to smacking as I think in theory it is wrong to hit a child, in reality kids can push you to your mental, physical and emotional limits!!

I have smacked my dd, the last time however was 4yrs ago when she was 3yo, she was out of control, screaming, kicking and hitting me. I smacked her once and she immediately stopped, calmed down and apologised.

I felt awful though and wish I had the saint like patience that some of the rest of you obv have I think now she is older it is so much eaiser to reason with her and I wouldn't ever need to smack her.

I was smacked as a child and think it probably did harm my relationship with my dad, although I have sympathy with him, I think it was used too often and not always as a last resort.

BooCanary, I am with you on all counts.

Reading this thread is just depressing. There is too much aggression on this site - and I'm not talking about "smackers" (wtf, btw??) - I'm talking about women who have nothing better to do than attack each other anonymously. I'm going to bed.

That depends on how you define "effective" SGB. If you're concerned only with appearances and not on the child's actual learning and development, then a smack may well "work". Fine for a dog (arguably). Lazy, cowardly and frankly quite stupid for a child. Assuming you want a healthy huma being out of it. One who doesn't think it's ok to solve his problems with violence.

This. It's always been my point when people wax lyrical about how well behaved X smacked child is/was. I mean you, father. I'm bringing up thinking humans, not puppies trained to react to stimuli.

My DD has brought me to tears and to my knees pulling my hair viciously over somethng trivial - she does this a lot - I usually walk away (ignoring is best sometimes) but I have slapped back in retaliation - not good as it becomes a vicious circle. I can now see the triggers and can usually avoid a meltdown - she's 9 and usually a lovely girl. I don't see slapping as teaching them any kind of lesson other than it's okay for people to hit each other.

Smacking is lazy parenting IMO.

I was smacked and My feelings towards my parents were rather negative. I was a good kid but although I loved my parents I also resented them, slightly feared them and found them unapproachable.

I have 3 children, all well behaved, polite and happy. I am quite a strict parent with zero tolerance for back chat and bad manners, and a short threshold for nonsense. I do not smack my children!

Those who want an ultimate solution to bad behaviour or a direct alternative to smacking, will be waiting a long time for an answer because there isn't such a thing. Every situation and example of unwanted behaviour needs dealing with in a way that is relevant to the problem at the time.

The main thing is to have your children's respect. This is earned by making boundaries clear, being consistent with your expectations of them. Making consequences clear and following through with any threats - always.

When your children respect you, they care about how you feel. They want to earn your approval and get disappointed in themselves if they disappoint you.

Teach them good behaviour by example, give them your time and attention, positive praise is a huge deal, as a motivator and an esteem builder.

Dancer that is my nonmaterialistic,headstrong and willfull dd.What does one do for these little pickles when all the text book stuff doesn't work?

Well today I hollered,made her write lines,banned her from sleepovers and threatened to take her gerbils away.Yes I'm not proud(started off patient and calm doing all the text book stuff for the first 3 hours)however I had an apologetic dd at bedtime who understands she behaved badly. Was all that better than a smack when she was spewing rudeness and bad behaviour I don't know but what I do know is letting it go wasn't on. As a child I wouldn't have dared behave like that as I knew I'd get a smacked bum.

I more than nobody should have had the answers,I didn't.

I'm pissing myself laughing at the idea that kids were better behaved in the 70's

I actually dread my children finding out about some of the stunts I pulled because its stuff they wouldn't dream of doing.

And interestingly, my father, having spent the first 13 years of my son's life telling me I was ruining him, how he just needed a good wallop, how he was clearly mentally ill, how I was bringing him up to be an antisocial fuckhead, now waxes lyrical about bright he is and what a good job I did given how tricky he was. DS is 19 now by the way seems not to be an antisocial fuckhead with psychopathic tendencies and scant regard for other people's feelings as prophesied.

SGB I've used the naughty step (rolled up jumper) in the middle of Sainsbury's before. It was very effective.

I've also scooped up each of the DSs and left the park / the shops / toddler group when nothing else has worked so he know's I don't bluff about going straight home.

You don't need to smack.

Yes indeed sock! Children were often feral in the 1970s but their parents had no idea as they were too busy getting pissed down the pub.