Grayling defending smacking

[seventiesgirl]

Never did him any harm apparently. The tory party are such a bunch of tossers. Whatever next?

It absolutely is hitting. Punching, slapping.. they are all forms of hitting.

You may not like it (I don't like it either, that's why I don't do it) but you don't get to annexe bits of the English language and warp them so that you don't have to face up to the fact that you are hitting a child.

It pisses me off when smackers try to dilute their behaviour by saying "just a tap" and "it's not really hitting". It is. If that bothers you, good. That's your conscience telling you it's wrong.

Definition of hit: come into contact with forcefully, to strike.

If you use your fist it is a punch.

I have managed to teach children from age 2 to 18 and have excellent classroom discipline, obviously without smacking. I have never smacked DS (age 4) and I assume I won't ever smack DD (17 mo). I think the two are related; I am very confident in my behaviour management at school and at home and I've had lots and lots of practice at dealing with people who want to do things that I think aren't appropriate!

I think it's entirely down to having realistic expectations, creating the right environment and having very very clear boundaries. DS only ever goes on the naughty step for violence. He understands that any toys that don't get tidied up will go in the bin (I've only ever had to do that once) and that if he dicks about at bedtime then he won't get read to.

I don't have to smack because I am confident in how I manage my DC's behaviour but this is primarily because it's what I do all day, every day. I agree that there are some people who don't get this sort of practice and therefore aren't confident in dealing with their children's behaviour and that probably the only solution is parenting classes. It's a shame that there is such a stigma attached to them.

I think far too many are not doing fine,far from it.Bad behaviour manifests itself in all sorts if ways in teenage years,kids don't need an asbo to be badly behaved,ill disciplined and not reaching their full potential.

Hitting is wrong.
Verbal abuse is wrong.
Total lack of discipline/parenting/teaching is also wrong.

There are classes/resources/support to help people avoid the above. I am not suggesting it is easy.

I'm a teacher. I wouldn't hit your children whatever they did. I keep order in my classroom in other ways. And I have the support of the school when doing so.

I'm a mother. I wouldn't hit my children whatever they did. I have managed (with DH and my wonderful wider family) to pretty much keep things in order at home.

I am a step mother. I wouldn't hit my DH's child whatever he did. There have been difficult times and we have dealt with them. DH and I have supported one another.

It is not OK to hit children. If you want an instant quick fix solution to every problem you are going to be disappointed, whether you lash out or not. It is a long-term job. Sometimes you have to sit back and think, right, what am I teaching these children. That it is OK to hit? That it is OK to hit someone smaller than you? That it is OK to hit someone who is overtired/whiney/bratty/resentful/vile/scared you/asking for it/didn't listen last time/pushes boundaries/gets on your nerves/would take too long to sort out by another method...

Really?

Yes but do you think most are doing badly?

Really?

Sorry. I sound smug as hell in my post. I am not an insane control freak and I do lose my rag. I have yelled at DS horribly a few times and I did once drag him off DD when he had really hurt her. My behaviour management is far from perfect but it's good enough to not need to hit my kids (and I agree that it is hitting, you can't sugar-coat it).

I often hear of hitting as a means of preventing a potentially dangerous situation, i.e. child running off to the road.

A genuine question: surely hitting does not prevent an accident on the spot? Grabbing, shouting, jumping in from of them maybe, but hitting?

Hmmmm feral I was of that belief,had consistent outstanding feedback re my discipline in school-even supported struggling staff,ditto with the dtwins-then dd came along! Yes compared to the majority she js a good kid,an angel at school and in public however she pushes the boundaries at home - a lot.Kids differ and being a mummy js different to being a teacher-just sayin.

I think more are behaving badly and are less disciplined yes.

I am bewildered by the posters on here who seem to imply that it's either smacking or doing nothing. Yes, there are some crap parents who let their DC get away with anything and everything. There was one at our local pool yesterday, kept running in and out of the automatic doors letting the cold air in over and over again, and it was brass monkeys out here. And the mum did nothing. She was a lazy, crap parent.

But my DDs were not doing that stuff, didn't even think of pulling that stuff, and they were not smacked - just taught boundaries.

I do agree with PolkaDotCircus that parenting classes are needed, simply because choosing not to smack means you have to do a lot of hard work researching alternative methods and fine tuning what works for you. There will be many people who need help with that.

But smacking is not and should not be an acceptable alternative to doing that hard work.

I don't think that most people are doing badly. The vast majority of kids that I teach/ have taught are reasonably behaved and are well parented. There are a few, and it's a very small minority, who are a problem because their parents are a problem.

Feral. I think it depends on the schools. I have countless friends still teaching agog at the behaviour they see.

Apart from anything else- all discussed on here- it doesn't work! The same children get smacked again and again!
The danger is when people 'think it did them no harm' and so they do it in turn. I was never smacked- my parents were never smacked- so I would consider myself a failure if I did it.

Polka I know parenting and teaching are different but don't you think that one informs the other? I am much more circumspect as a teacher now that I have kids (nothing any student could do could ever be as infuriating as DS) and I am really good at using my voice to discipline him simply because I am aware of how I speak because it's my job.

I know all kids are different but I'm still confident that I could never be induced to smack one.

Exactly Pointy,I think if I have to work hard at alternatives I can kind of see why parents who the first child they have ever had any interaction with is their own struggle.

So you think most children are badly behaved?

Those of you who agree with hitting - do you think that teachers should also be able to hit your children? If not, why not?

Of the kids teach it's usually the abominably behaved few whose parents are of the "Ged 'ere yer norravin any more crisps" persuasion.

Children who are still hitting others at school age (SN and more specific EBD issues excepted) are often those whose families have poor physical boundaries and whose parents lack alternative strategies to shouting and smacking. IME.

Yes Feral I think teachers are better equipped however I think saying I discipline 30 kids without smacking so it must be easy to parent without is wrong.I actually found teaching 30 extremely challenging children easier at times than dd in one of her strops iykwim.

Oh good grief. What a load of sanctimonious clap trap on this thread. Talk about over thinking things.

My DM occasionally smacked me. Tbh, before I joined MN I'd never thought twice about it. I'm pretty sure I was being a real pain, and probably deserved a punishment, so fair enough.

I have very occasionally smacked my dcs on the bottom. I can't say they have been particularly bothered tbh, and I tend to favour other more effective punishments.

But I really think all the hand wringing about this is a total overreaction, and I wonder how many of the perfect parents on this thread raise their voice at their dcs, or ever manhandle them for any reason?!?

Oh and BTW, both myself and my parents are pretty left wing....

I think the harm it does is manifest in the expression 'It didn't do me any harm', TBH - apart from get you to accept that hitting is OK, that inflicting pain as a way of controlling others is normal, that having a 'no harm' policy is good enough when really as a parent you should be looking to do what is best for your children, the best you can possibly do.

Greensleeves I don't agree some of the hardest kids I've taught are the mc kids with zero discipline ,never been smacked or told off full stop who can do no wrong in mummy's eyes- they are seriously hard nuts to crack and often very manipulative.

"I have countless friends still teaching agog at the behaviour they see." I agree Polka that it depends on the school to a certain extent, and the demographic, but still I maintain that problem behaviour is from a minority of kids, otherwise we would be living in anarchy surely?

It's anecdotal, and it's only one case, but I spoke to the father of probably the naughtiest student that I ever taught and he told me, "just give him a clout. It's alright, I give you permission, I won't prosecute you. It's the only way to make him behave." By the time this kid was 15, I'm sure it was the only way to make him behave.

It does give you an interesting perspective though, to spend an afternoon trying to contain an angry, insecure child who hits out at other children and can't control his impulses, then to see that child crossing the playground with his parent dangling him by one arm and swiping at him with the other.

And the more genteel "controlled smack" is even worse. How cold-blooded to calmly hit a person much smaller than you. It teaches all the wrong things and tend to satisfy parents who care more about appearances - ie "it stopped him doing it" - than about what is actually going on inside the child.