Grayling defending smacking

[seventiesgirl]

Never did him any harm apparently. The tory party are such a bunch of tossers. Whatever next?

"Yes smacking children isn't preferable however doing nothing is worse behaviour wise."

Well - I'm not sure that it is worse tbh.
Worse for who?
A parent who literally does nothing when their child misbehaves clearly has many issues to address. But I really don't think that introducing smacking is going to help - if they are genuinely doing "nothing" (and I am not sure there are many of these, I've never met one!) then their lives are likely to be so chaotic introducing physical violence as well is going to be the last thing they need!

I don't smack (anymore) but I remember being smacked on occasion as a child. I think about 3 times in all, I remember every time and never did what I had been smacked for again. I don't think it harmed me, in fact I think my parents were right to but the difficulty is where do you draw the line? There will always be people who go to far and attack their DC, or smack in fits of anger because hey are in a bad mood, or smack for silly reasons, or smack too hard, this is why I feel it's better just to not smack at all.

Cannot believe some of what just read? It's just madness. Apologies to whoever said this (as in, am so not flaming an individual here or singling anyone out but just saw it down thread after a few others) but just using it as a pretty good EG:

"DS was far more challenging and the third time he opened and left open the freezer door at three having been told quietly and gently twice not to do it and having the reasons explained - he got a smack (on the back of the hand)"

HITTING a THREE year old for opening a freezer door? Erm, safety locks anyone? Bloody improvement on physically and deliberately hurting your child (although DO get that putting child locks on things might be a bit more effort for some people if they have "I'll HIT you" in their back pocket"?

The only time I ever hit one of my DS's was in extreme circs, and was a gut reaction to utterly atrocious behaviour. I was more sickened than can find words for at what I did. So with 3 DS's adding up to 50 individual years of parenting, other than that mad lash-out, I never ever hit my kids. And guess what? They are generally well-behaved, they love & respect me (as I do them?), and ESP. when they were younger would often have people overtly comment on how well-behaved and how well-mannered they were.

It achieves NOTHING, but I will agree it a bloody easier, quicker & lazier option than actually full-on proper parenting where you stick with absolute love & above boundaries - boundaries that you enforce no matter HOW long it takes and with utter perseverance (IE the opposite and way more time and care consuming than a wallop). I think I even read one re hitting a 13month old?? That is child abuse plain & simple, not 'smacking'.

And to anyone who rolls out the 'it did me no harm yada yada' - yes it did. It turned YOU into someone who doesn't see it for what it is as it's normalised for you. Those of us who WERE smacked/beaten but learnt from it how horrific it is for a child's self-esteem & their respect (RESPECT, not FEAR), both KNOW how damaging it was for us AND resolved to NEVER inflict that indignity and humiliation on OUR DC's - even if it DOES take WAY more time and effort than the parents I see threatening their kid with a wallop at Supermarket/wherever. And before anyone even thinks of flameing me for stating the bloody obvious above, please check out my other posts - in particular one I had to start desperately urgently on Friday as my terminally ill Mamma suddenly deteriorated rapidly. Cos d'you know what? As well as remembering all her good bits, I also remember the slaps/how they made me feel/the problems it led to. Trust me, if you want to smack, 'tap' (lol at the minimising 'tap' sh*t), or wallop your kid, they WILL be damaged by it &/or hate you for it.

So would strongly advise you roll the tape forward, see how they will likely see you (ESP. when they have their own DC's), and maybe invest more time in parenting - with ALL the effort and time that takes - and less quick 'fix' wallops. Know am still in shock re my own Ma and the shocking state she is now and the fact that she is going to die in next 2-3 days, but don't think is a single word above that still wouldn't written even if WASN'T in deep shock, trauma, and loss. And - above all else - guess what? Yep, CARING for my DC's throughout this.

I am really pleased to see so many posts against smacking. I'm sure the last time this came up on MN and I saw it the split was about 50-50

Thanks Eau, I teach parenting classes so am lucky enough to work with parents and help them find different ways of getting the behaviour they want from their children.

Most don't want to smack, but that's what they experienced and they don't know what to do instead, other than the naughty step.

Let's call it what it is - it's hitting. Smacking is a construct to make those doing the hitting feel less like they are doing something wrong.

I was hit. It didn't work and if it did, surely you would only have to do it once.

Being hit damaged the relationship I had with my parents and to this day it has never been repaired.

If you hit a child you have lost control. It's about you and not them.

What awful, wicked, evil deed can be done by a 2,3,4...8 year old that warrants them being hit by their principal care giver? Being hit by the same hand that in turn is supposed to offer comfort, love and care?

I don't get it. I never have. I never will.

I have never hit my 9 year old DS (and believe me he is no angel). There are plenty of other sanctions that we impose that work well startail.

Incidentally my parents in law brought up 3 strapping, law abiding, delightful chaps without ever hitting them once.

Oh I have no evidence it's common sense.Behaviour is appalling now,children are depressed and you see so much utter crap parenting-hollering,ignoring,dragging,placating,rewarding with materialistic goods,rewarding crap behaviour full stop......

In the old days kids got a clobber,yes it was wrong but kids behaved because they were scared not too.Most loved their parents it was just the way it was.That time has gone thankfully but now the fear has gone so has the discipline as parents don't know what to do.

I find the How to Talk very effective however I have had to research it,keep dipping into it and it's quite dry.Sometimes my personality doesn't lend to it as when dd has been a monster calming telling her how bad she is making me feel isn't actually possible-so sue me! Many,many parents don't have the time or inclination to look out effective discipline methods.

Parenting classes are needed desperately by the vast majority of parents imvho.

Polkadot what you are saying makes no sense. Are you seriously suggesting that all these amazing potentially consistent parents have morphed into inconsistent parents because they can't hit? That's bollocks. If they were going to be consistent with hitting in their repertoire they can be consistent without it. My parents hit me. They were utterly inconsistent over when they would do it. Usually depended what mood THEY were in when I did something.

I was smacked. I have never and will never smack my DC. it's wrong. Giving birth to someone does not give you the right to inflict pain on them.

Oh I have no evidence it's common sense

Sorry but that's bullshit IMO.

You think you need to hit to get decent behaviour?

We used to have the cane in schools. Bring that back shall we?

Oh and Cat many very middle class parents simply do nothing.Some of the worst behaviour I witnessed was in the poshest school in taught in.

It has been proved that not disciplining or giving effective boundaries can lead to depression and insecurity in children.They just think parents don't care.

Iggly you clearly haven't read my post so I won't bother reading yours.

Ballstoit wrote a very good post, no smacking, verbal abuse. Insightful parenting IMO

Behaviour may be 'worse' now (in some people's opinions) but there are a lot more things that have changed than just parents not smacking their children any more. I'm not sure you can link the two with any certainty.

Personally I suspect a controlled tap on the bum would have stopped things instantly but instead we had an afternoon of hell.

I've often wondered about this too.

I don't think that parents who smack use smacking as a first option but more as an option in extreme circumstances for children who don't respond to any other methods of managing bahaviour. And smacking isn't about teaching children, it's about stopping a particular behaviour immediately.

Yellow not all parents smacked like that.

My dp recently said to ds "if you hit me, I will hit you back"

I replied "if you hit him you will be living on your own"

He hasn't threatened it since

I do think it was more acceptable in the 70's. I remember a lady who took me to school saying she would smack me if I didn't blah blah blah. She didn't hit me but I remember thinking what a cheek. She wasn't my parent.

I also argued with my grandmother (again her saying grandad would hit me) don't think he did and me saying 'well, he's not my father and she retorted he doesn't have to be your father".

If it should be banned then there must be some form of discipline as someone else on this thread stated. No discipline isn't good parenting either.

You're saying it's common sense - that smacking was why children were better behaved. How do you know? You don't.

We dont have feral children running wild.

I reckon most of us do a good job with the poor parenting being the minority of cases.

Right so there are no behaviour problems and we're all doing a good job-really???

Greensleeves:

it's the ones who maintain that it did them no harm who manifest the most damage tbh. Their moral compass is all fucked up. They think it's fine to hit people smaller and weaker than themselves in order to force compliance.

People who know it did them harm tend to have done a bit more work on their personal development and have cottoned on that it might be an idea not to hit their own children.

PRECISELY.

No some of us know it did us no harm however don't think it is the right thing to do and are sometimes bewildered in many a parenting situation as the tools haven't been taught.

Parenting classes are what is needed not hysteria and pretending that bad behaviour doesn't exist.

it is not hitting. If I hit someone I would do it with my fist and they would feel it. If I ever smack my DC I do it after plenty of warning when they have been really naughty time after time and then only with my fingers or an open hand on their legs. It is the last resort and they know it.

Polkadot - you don't know how most people hit their kids. You only know your family. I only know mine. I'm just saying mine hit unpredictably. You have no evidence to draw on to claim my parents' way wasn't the norm.

You post as though you know how families are behind closed doors. But unless you've done extensive research, you are just making it up.

To be honest, anyone who resorts to 'it's common sense' has lost the argument.

Read my post. I said most of us are doing fine.

Do you think most children are well behaved?

Or do you think most children are out of control?