Grayling defending smacking

[seventiesgirl]

Never did him any harm apparently. The tory party are such a bunch of tossers. Whatever next?

As already stated I am not a fan of smacking. However, I do have some sympathy for AllDirections here. I still don't advocate it, but I can accept that it worked in this instance. That journey there must have been a nightmare for all! Her dd3 wasn't safe and neither was anyone. Why a smack made her feel safe, so that she was able to comply with seatbelt rules, is beyond me, but clearly it did. It doesn't sound like her dd3 is easily cowed, so I can only think that the sharp reprimand, in the form of a smack, somehow allowd her to calm down, gether her thoughts and get on with the task in hand. I'm sure there were other ways to go about it, but in AllDirection's defence, she was probably at the end of her tether.

I'm not a fan of any smacking, anywhere or anyhow, but even I can distinguish between a one-off/occasional one and smacking as a regular thing. I'd hear you if you came back and said, 'What's the difference?' too. In theory, none. In practise, in a particular incident, maybe there was a difference. Life just isn't black and white - there are more than fifty shades of grey! (Unfortunate spanking allusion not actually intended - just borrowing a recent cliche!)

What's for the last time not all smackers smack in anger.Do you discipline in anger?

how do you deal with a child who hits another child?

Surely you'd tell them that they are not allowed to hit another child? I do lots of things my dc don't do, drinking alcohol, swearing (occasionally), driving, my dp smokes etc etc. Just becuase i (or my dp) does these things doesn't automatically allow that my dc can do these things.

All direction, there was nothing in your post that made me think you had a right to smack your dd and justified your action. she was probably fed up being stuck in the car, couldn't get comfy, strapped in tightly ( which is probably hellish, not being able to move, ESP for a child) and could sense you losing your temper. Maybe she felt carsick too.

You would not have had an accident if you hadn't hit her. You would have had some yelling to put up with before the child fell asleep. Would you slap a crying baby desperate to feed and was disturbing you whilst driving? And you couldn't stop for some reason for a while?

I once saw someone slap a crawling baby who was edging towards the door in a cafe. Apparently the child didn't listen. This woman really saw nothing wrong in slapping a baby who was stuck in cafe whilst her dm chatted to her friends.

with drinking, smoking etc, there are good, valid reasons for children not doing them... like for their general wellbeing and everything which is what they should be told if they ask... so what do you tell them when they ask you why they're not allowed to hit their mates??

That doesn't sit right with me. Don't hit because that's another child?
But it's ok for an adult to hit a child?

she was probably fed up being stuck in the car, couldn't get comfy, strapped in tightly ( which is probably hellish, not being able to move, ESP for a child) and could sense you losing your temper. Maybe she felt carsick too.

Was there someone upthread who mentioned the constant excuse making for naughty behavioiur. TBH all those reasons mentioned above are a bit of a cop out. Im assuming the dd3 knew that she had to stay belted up in her seat, regardless of how she felt, and AD's response was appropriate in the circumstances.

No, don't hit because as a child you are not allowed to.

Some adults are allowed to use various degrees of hitting/violence. Parents are allowed to smack moderately within the confines of the law. The same as police are allowed to use force within their own legal frameworks.

Do you discipline in anger? Er yes I'll feel angry - that's different to taking out your anger via a smack. I don't do vindictive punishments either

my little one is too wee to smack but if needed i would smack them but only once they knew they were not supposed to do whatever it was they were doing and knew they understood they should not be doing whatever it was and then only if what they were doing put them in danger, the only, bad, example i can think of is something like if they didnt stop running across a road after being told and warned about it, if it was something trivial like them messing about and just wouldnt do whatever it was you wanted them to do then no i wouldnt smack them.

i was smacked by my dad and belted at school, dont think its done me any harm. i was belted at school because i punched someone back, who had already punched me, but i broke their nose, purely by accident. the way i see it is they hit me first and im definitely not going to stand and let someone hit me, they can go fuck themselves if they think they are going to get away with that.

i was also told if someone hit me when i was younger to him them back and to stand up for myself. the first time it happened i was taken back to the other person who hit me and told to hit them back and if i didnt i would be punished. since then i didnt get bullied and stood up for myself, even now, 30 yrs later, i wont let anyone bully me, im quite happy to speak up and speak my mind and am quite a confident, outgoing person.

I bet none of the pro smacking posters would do it in a public place......wonder why...

Hmm my friends that do have given a tap in public that's errr how I know they do.

The thing is that hitting is not "always" wrong. I want my children to learn to defend themselves. I will send them both to decent martial arts classes where they will learn when it is and (mainly) when it is not OK to hit. We are not yet a post physical society.

I have virtually given up smacking (and my smacks are now so ineffectual as hardly being worthy of the name) due to feeling bad about it. I don't think I am a better parent for it, possibly worse, as I have lost (some) confidence in my own instincts.

However when my children shock me I still can shout loudly enough at them to cause upset and, yes, I do do it in anger. This is mainly when they hurt one another or me or my wife. They need to learn certain things are not OK and big scary daddy will emerge if these things happen (casually poking in the eye is the latest). I am still amazed at threads on here where parents permit their children to bite them (for instance) without any kind of physical response. They are literally standing there with teeth penetrating their skin counting to five or threatening a time out. To me, there is something wrong with that. Children need to see their parents as real people, not ideal people, and learn that extreme behaviour carries some personal risk to them. I unashamedly smacked my children if they bit me (and still would).

As for the idea of reciprocity ("Daddy hits so I can hit") I am all for it. I tell them that they got a smack for biting me and if I or anyone else bites them they are welcome to smack and that is fair....but I don't and never will bite them because I am not an animal. They get it, even the two year old.

Disclaimers to the rabid antismackers and antidisciplinarians:

1/ The vast majority of the time my children behave well and have no need for shouting or any other kind of discipline.

2/ Yes, we as parents use lots of other strategies including reward charts, distraction, explanations, trying to get them to empathise, time outs, toy removal etc etc

3/ They are both reasonably gentle children and are well liked by their peers and at nursery.

I think that the children of parents who don't use violence as a form of behaviour control are on the whole more responsive to their caregivers' feelings and thoughts, and feel more equal in the relationship and less powerless. All hitting really does is breed anger and resentment and massively skew the relationship in your favour (whatever you may think and however you think your children are reacting to it).

While thumped children will avoid doing things that will end in them being hit, they don't necessarily have any desire to please their parents beyond that, and perversely become harder and harder to discipline as they get older. They very quickly begin not to care about being hit, but also never really develop a dialogue with the adults in their life. My experience as a teacher is that the teenage years are far worse with children who've been disciplined with violence. You can't actually control them with violence once they're nearly as big as you and you also don't have a dialogue with them, which leaves them on their own, often scared and angry. It's sad.

POKER - suggest click through and read? Or if don't, don't ever again presume to know ANYONE else's reality just because they have a diff POV to you.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/teenagers/1657642-HOPE-for-parents-troubled-teens-please-share-in-this-UTTER-joy

it's sad indeed, that a child should ever be made to fear their parent/s.

titty child A hitting child B does not have authority over child B therefore any action to gain control, including snatching, pulling hair or even spitting is a selfish.

.

Stoic err I stopped reading after the first few abusive lines thanks.

What's I agree and I've seen an awful lot more children utterly terrified by a shouting parent or one threatening this,that and the other which comes back to my original not unreasonable point.

meant to say "selfish act". and so is hitting a child out of anger or frustration or sheer desperation.

POKER - ditto, suggest read.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/bereavement/1673905-Please-help-me-TODAY-Mum-DSs-nanny-is-probably-going-to-die-this-weekend

Then maybe relocate your humane/empathy/polite gene - as well as knocking your presumptive/dumb/assumptive one (vis previous link posted) very firmly on head.

NB: Am assuming you'll have no prob whacking the above on the ahead, since whacking 'tapping' so fine with you.

Will not be replying directly to any further posts from you. You are both defensive, offensive, and packed with 'straw man' arguments that defy words (to this journalist/writer anyway).

Oh another hysterical MN thread on smacking. My mother smacked me, probably a bit too much sometimes. It wasn't nice but she was really, really struggling in her life with an extremely emotionally abusive alcoholic husband while living in a very isolated place. We get on great these days. She wasn't proud of it, but it wasn't the heinous crime you'd imagine from reading this sort of thread.

Anyone who says their relationship with their parents was irrevocably harmed because of slapping - note, slapping, NOT beating, just the odd smack in relation to their behaviour - really needs to grow the fuck up.

iggly I believe children know the difference between hitting and smacking (and by smacking I mean a predictable disciplinary action, warning or protective measure) and it is not difficult to explain it to them!

seems adults have a much harder time.

Hmmm. I don't smack as I've said.I will be reporting your rather abusive unpleasant posts which pretty much make my point re questioning other forms of punishment.Clearly shouting and speaking to somebody in an abusive way is fine by you.