Woman dies in Galway after being denied termination

[AThingInYourLife]

Holy evil pro-life bastards, batman

The wonder is it that there haven't been more

RIP Savita Halappanavar :(

Abortion available to women in Spain and Italy.

Somewherewest, I'm also Irish, from Galway and have given birth in Galway. You are not in the slightest bit representative of any of my female friends or relations in your opinion that we as a gender or country do not want abortion. 5000+ women who travel for abortion annually would also disagree with you I suspect. Open debate is not a good thing in the context of continually refusing to legislate for something already voted on in a referendum and successively botched or ignored by government after government. The argument about medical mismanagement also has merit I feel, and the overall treatment of miscarriages in Ireland also deserves examination.

LadyBeagle, when Belgium (catholic) legalized abortion in the 80's (?) - the king abdicated for the day as he wanted to make a statement.

I think abortion is available up to 14 weeks in both Spain and Italy.

Just to add, I think it needs to be reiterated that there are two separate issues when it comes to abortion law in Ireland. The first is abortion where the mother's life is at risk. If I recall correctly recent polls suggest that a really overwhelmingly majority support abortion in those circumstances. Again what is not generally accepted is abortion on demand.

Again what is not generally accepted is abortion on demand

Happily this view seems to be changing. Slowly but surely we'll get there.

Well, the 5000+ women who travel abroad each year to access abortion services seem to be in favour of abortion on demand. It's barbaric and ignorant for a country to state that women don't support abortion, when so many women are so desperate to have one, that they are having to leave the country.

Being Irish, I remember how we got into the legislative nightmare that lead to this situation. Google the X- case for background knowledge. In 1992 the Supreme Court of Ireland ruled that an abortion could be preformed if continuing with the pregnancy posed a threat to life, as opposed to the health, of the mother. No government since has legislated for this ruling.

I am outraged that this beautiful young woman was left to die slowly IN AGONY while begging for a termination. This can only end in a wrongful death action and the European Courts.

When I stop shaking with rage, I'm sure I'll be in tears over this.

somewhere - rubbish. In the UK, anti-abortionists are given as much opportunity to state their views as those in favour of women having basic human rights over their own bodies. I suspect what you are complaining about is that both sides are allowed to speak over here - you want it all your own way.

and rubbish to your attempts to downplay this case. Ireland has not implemented laws to ensure life-saving abortions can be carried out, breaching their obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights. Until that is done, Ireland is happy to kill women.

That's interesting Squoosh.
It makes we wonder why the catholic Church still has so much power in Ireland, when other Catholic countries have moved with the times.

This is so sad, I grew up in Galway county, I know people still there and its really horrifing to us that none of us is shocked in any way that this has happened. Appauled, yes, but not surprised.

Reading the thread I have to say I can see both issues. They needed to have acted and been able to act in accordance to her wishes - regardless of if they thought the baby could survive the waters breaking etc it was an extreme long shot and the mother didn't believe the odds were in her favour. That should be enough to anyone pro-life or not.

However, personally I do think the medical staff were negligent within the law in not doing more to be wary of infection. Based on what I've read that is. And that doesn't shock me from personal experiences I know of at the hospital and the medical service in the area. Don't want to out myself by being specific but one instance involved a head injury not being looked after right and developing infection - so like I said not shocked.

dontlaugh

Again what does it mean to say that people "want" abortion? Abortion in what form? It is far too complex an issue to just talk about being "pro-abortion" or "anti-abortion". We're a democracy. Roughly fifty per cent of our voters are women. It isn't as if some evil oppressive force is lurking out there stopping us introducing a more liberal abortion regime if we as a country intensely desired it. We have already legalised divorce, liberalised our contraception laws in line with western European norms and will have same sex marriage or at the very least civil partnerships pretty soon (most Irish people favour the former in opinion polls if I remember correctly). So a liberalised abortion regime would be perfectly possible if the popular will was there.

Also if they didn't treat her with abs when her waters broke and a feotus is classed as having the same rights as the mother, the hospital should be charged with neglect and inadequate treatment of both of them

somewhere - rubbish. In the UK, anti-abortionists are given as much opportunity to state their views as those in favour of women having basic human rights over their own bodies. I suspect what you are complaining about is that both sides are allowed to speak over here - you want it all your own way.

That is actually utter bollocks. Anti-abortionists are utterly invisible in the mainstream UK media. And I'm actually an annoying fence-sitter rather than an ardent pro-lifer or anti-abortionist or whatever the correct term is. I just think this thread needs a corrective.

somewherewest I'm sure many UK people would be surprised to learn that you can only get divorced in Ireland if you can prove you have been separated from your spouse for four years.

Some people may also be surprised that condoms only became available for sale in Ireland in 1978.

Yep, we're just always 30 years behind everyone else in many, many issues.

We'll get there though, it just won't be anytime soon.

Nadine Dorries certainly isn't invisible.

Well, the 5000+ women who travel abroad each year to access abortion services seem to be in favour of abortion on demand. It's barbaric and ignorant for a country to state that women don't support abortion, when so many women are so desperate to have one, that they are having to leave the country.

[Bangs head against wall]. The Irish Republic is a democracy, in which women do actually have the fecking vote. I'm not sure how many times I need to repeat this. I think what we're getting on this thread is a bad case of cognitive dissonance. The reasoning goes like this: Anything less than abortion on demand is "anti-women". Ergo all women everywhere must want abortion on demand. Ergo all Irishwomen must want abortion on demand. And if they don't have it, its because armies of priests are roaming around beating them away from the polling booths with sticks or something.

Nadine Dorries certainly isn't invisible.

But she is pretty universally derided. It isn't exactly a level playing field.

What a horrific and sad case :(

I think it was already mentioned but its not just women living in Ireland who do not have the right to terminate, up until very recently (ie about a month ago) neither did women living in NI which is part of the UK. Even at that they do not have the same rights as women in other parts of the UK, terminations are only done up to 9wks afaik :(

Anyway (fun though discussing Irish abortion law obviously is) I should go do some work...

Again, somewherewest, I refer you to the 5000+ women who travel abroad for termination annually. They should not have to leave the country to get this treatment, regardless of their reasons for wanting it. The ECHR agrees and has demanded the Irish gov legislate for this, which Enda Kenny has said he will never do in his tenure as Taoiseach. Why do YOU think successive governments have refused to legislate? The irony, in a week in which we voted yes to the Children's referendum and also joined an EU human rights council. Sadly, irony will not help Savita or her family now.

Universally derided? Oh, you mean because lots of British people didn't agree with her proposed changes as they are quite happy with the current abortion laws.

Disagreeing isn't the same as deriding.

I don't think all women want abortion on demand, but to not realise that it is necessary to have safe and accessible abortion available for anyone who needs it, and to act in a way that makes it unlikely for this to happne (eg voting against it) is anti-women. Women that vote against abortion are anti-women. Whether they admit it to themselves or, or even see it that way, is a different issue.

It is a very sad situation that could possibly have been avoided on two levels and raises several issues.

I think the first question that is the real and unanswered issue is, would her life been saved had she had the termination? We won't know that for a while.

Women die in childbirth due to infections far to regularly and the fact that this may have been missed until too late is a bigger concern in a country that is meant to have a good level of care is all the more shocking.

There always will be discussions on the rights of the foetus over the rights of the mother. It of course is another big issue that will always cause people on both sides of the fence great upset. What would happen in the UK if Jeremy Hunt was able to lower the limit to 12 weeks and a similar situation arose?

I think many posters need to be careful of blaming Irish politicians and Irish Doctors. Not every Irish Doctor and Politician will hold the same opinion on abortion/termination and it is unfair to tar them all with the same brush.

Nicknamegrief I'm sorry but successive Irish governments since 1992 have refused to legislate for a constitutional change that was agreed by referendum by the Irish people in order to deal with these kinds of situation.

Of course they are to blame.