Woman dies in Galway after being denied termination

[AThingInYourLife]

Holy evil pro-life bastards, batman

The wonder is it that there haven't been more

RIP Savita Halappanavar :(

seems to me that even per the Irish abortion law, she should have gotten a termination as she wasn't attempting nor were the doctors attempting to procure a miscarriage which I think is the definition used?

She was already having one spontaneously. But if this case raises awareness about abortion in the Republic, then that's a good thing.

My prediction is that the doctors will be held negligent and the misogynistic abortion law in Ireland will be swept under the carpet

sieglinde Wed 14-Nov-12 13:23:30

'Well, sorry to wreck the rage party'

What very poor taste you have.

Sorry to hear that, squoosh. Just rage doesn't make for reason.

For the Londoners amongst us

Rage is often a more of a catalyst to action though. And is actually a genuine empathetic human reaction to an injustice. Rage is appropriate here.

Verylittle... Well, apologies, then, because that was no my intent at all. My point was really purely medical and not at all about Irish abortion law. I still doubt that the termination on its own would have saved her, and I think many here are assuming that it would have. I was really on the same page as you, I think - pointing to the misogynist neglect of her and her medical needs.

As for the rage, all I meant and mean is that everyone is expressing the same view and overlooking another layer, which is the generally careless and incompetent treatment of miscarrying women.

First off, all we have pending an investigation is the husband's idea of what happened, which may be wrong. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. I'm Irish (and from Galway) and can never recall a case like this before, despite the existence of a very vigorous and open debate on abortion in the Irish Republic. Secondly, I get slightly weary of British people telling us that Irish abortion law is anti-woman blah blah, when very substantial numbers of Irishwomen do not favour any great liberalisation on the issue. The Irish Republic has had something like four referendums on abortion in the last twenty years, and if I recall correctly women voters were not significantly more or less pro-choice than male ones.

I think Irish women are entitled to rage, should be encouraged to rage, after seeing how the avoidance at all costs of the vote losing abortion issue has failed this woman in the most shocking possible way.

Maybe some rage will finally galvanise some action. Who knows they may get around to putting some legislation in place!

sieglinde - "rage party" absolutely sounds sneery and derogatory and I don't see the comment adding any "reason" to this important discussion.

You could easily have come in a said this could be about Anti Bs rather than foetal rights and moved the debate on and deeper. Important point IMO which was lost in a rather condescending post in which it rather sounded like you thought we were all getting "our knickers in a twist".

However, the poor woman was in pain for 3 days, told she was having miscarriage, was left and was told that Ireland was a Catholic Country. Not getting access to Anti Bs was not the only issue here.

somewherewest, You are right we are speaking based on what is not proven in a court of law.
Moth referendums on death penalty also favour death penalty. The majority of a population can decide awful things about the minority or the most vulnerable.

somewherewest 'vigorous and open debate on abortion in the Irish Republic'?

You think? Funny, as an Irish woman myself, all I see is an issue being shipped off to England or swept under a carpet.

ilovemydogandmrobama - as long as a heartbeat was present then under Irish law the doctors could not act unless the woman's life is at threat, as they would be at risk of criminal prosecution. It would appear that they kept monitoring for the heartbeat and did an erpc as soon as the heartbeat stopped.

But the hospital failed to treat the infection effectively. It is not usual in that hospital to treat with antibiotics without proof of infection, and the very clear signs of infection clearly came to late, for effective treatment to save the woman. Should all women who are miscarrying be treated with antibiotics? Did the hospital test for infection too late?

5madthings - you say "The infection would have/did kill the baby. Had thar not happened and the baby had actually continued to grow it simply would have put more pressure on the cervix and highly unlikely that it would have developed to a viable gestation" My point is that my friend had this very unlikely outcome of survival with dilated cervix and continued leaking waters, and did beat the odds have her baby did reach viable gestation and was born healthy in that same hospital only weeks earlier. This could have been fresh in some of the minds of the doctors and nurses there too.
I agree with you that "This is a horrific case and it is abhorrent and appalling that this woman was left to suffer like this, horrible waste of life"

I think that the comment of it being a "Catholic country" was totally inappropriate, and unprofessional of the doctor who said it. In the same hospital I was told by a different doctor that I should be "glad it wasn't cancer" when talking about the histology report of my erpc following miscarriage. The doctors in that hospital need complete retraining in management of miscarriage and how they use words.

And I think that fixing ourselve sin a more or less unfortunate sentence that sieglinde used is not very useful. Her points are very much in line with the discussion here and add to the thread. Starting a fight among us about that sentence does not seem very relevant.

what an appalling tragedy. Irish politicians should be ashamed of themselves - they have this death on their hands. AND Irish doctors who should have been demanding the law be clarified so they can save lives instead of throwing them away. The treatment of women who miscarry sounds barbaric.

You think? Funny, as an Irish woman myself, all I see is an issue being shipped off to England or swept under a carpet.

There have been three referendums (not four - my mistake) in 1983, 1992 and 2002, for starters. That is three more than have been held on the issue in the UK. Having lived in both the UK and the Irish Republic I would say that the debate is more open in the latter, in that there are actually two sides.

somewhere, the cruel refusal to carry out life-saving treatment is indeed anti-woman. Even if some women agree with that cruelty. A racist action doesn't stop being racist when someone finds one black person who is in favour of it. You don't need a unified opinion from every woman in the country to see that killing women is a. wrong and b. anti-women.

Ireland is in breach of its responsibliities to treat women as human beings under the 2010 Court of Human Rights ruling that 'the state failed to implement existing rights to lawful abortion where a mother's life was at risk'. If some Irish people don't like foreigners telling them they are killing women, perhaps they should stop killing women? And take themselves out of the European Convention on Human Rights, just so we all know what kind of country they want?

galway that is very very rare, the most likely outcome in cases like this is that the waters have broken too early for the lungs to develope properly. Or infection sets in which could kill them both.

As for should all women who are miscarrying be treated with antibiotics yes in the case of later mc where the waters have broken they should. I was. My waters also broke early with ds2&3 and I had antibiotics even without showing signs of infection.

I still think if they'd acted earlier regarding a termination the infection may not have occurred

I have also lived in both the Republic and the UK. I still think Ireland has nothing approaching an open debate on the abortion topic. It's a vote killer, no one touches it.

Referenda are all well and good if you then actually put into place legislation that reflects the voted for amendment. All that's happening at the moment is that Ireland is contravening European Convention on Human Rights for failing to implement the existing constitutional right to a lawful abortion.

poor woman how shocking she did not get the help :(.

Edam Firstly, we do not actually know what happened in this case. So far we have one account of events, which may or may not be accurate. Secondly, you are saying that Ireland is "killing women" based on one case, which has not been investigated yet, and about which we actually know very little. Roughly speaking opinion polls suggest that the concensus in Ireland favours abortion where the life of the mother is at risk. What it does not favour is abortion on demand.

I feel for her family and her husband, who will replay the last days of his life over and over.

her life, sorry.

I still think Ireland has nothing approaching an open debate on the abortion topic.

My experience is that both sides are freely represented in Irish public discourse. This is very definitely not the case in the UK.

Just as a matter of interest, if anybody knows, countries like Spain and Italy are staunchly Catholic.
What are their laws on abortion?

My experience is that both sides are freely represented in Irish public discourse.

But what about the lack of legislation? What is your justification for that?