Woman dies in Galway after being denied termination

[AThingInYourLife]

Holy evil pro-life bastards, batman

The wonder is it that there haven't been more

RIP Savita Halappanavar :(

But saying that gay people shouldn't have the same rights at straight people is anti-gay. Saying that women should be forced to carry their pregnancy to term is being pro-forced birth.

And he is your god. He isn't my god. I don't believe in god. I am not being judged by a god. He/she/it whatever, I don't believe it exists. So your argument that god is judging me is, to me, totally baseless, pointless and stupid. It's your opinion that god is judging us. It's your opinion that he is real. It's opinion, it's not fact. Accept it.

Prove your god exists, Extro and we'll start using a capital letter for it.

Here's the thing - believe whatever makes you happy. We couldn't give a shiny shit.

But the moment you start using YOUR god to dictate how you think the rest of us should live, expect to hear from those of us more intelligent rational.

Extro- what's your stance on capital punishment?

Disappointed I wasn't on your list, by the way. Note to self- must try harder.

Oh, and I meant to say, I'm aghast that many folks seem to be using this case as an opportunity to have a pop at Irish people or even at Christians. Criticise the governments and the religious institutions that are responsible for restricting women's rights, yes. Encourage the people who elect these governments and who are members of these institutions to vote with their feet and get things changed.

But, crass assumptions that all Irish people are stupid, backward, women-haters (or similar) or that all Christians are delusional, naive morons is not helpful. There are plenty of Irish people who are fighting hard for gender equality and reproductive rights for women. There are plenty of Christians who are doing the same. Tar and brush, shoot and foot.

Kritiq Yes, Cailin was making that valid point - and lots of people (including me) were agreeing with her.

But she was going much, much further and claiming that an abortion would not have saved Savita's life. Quite how she knows this she hasn't bothered to explain - she just denies saying it even though her posts were quoted back to her over and over again.

Seeker, you very much are on my list, you are a typical metropolitan liberal elitist. Just not quite one of the first 10.

And you are still being offensive by the "your god" and "imaginary" bullshit. God is real, He is everyone's God whether they honour Him or not, and He will judge all including those who disbelieve in him.

And homosexual marriage is not a right. Marriage has always been defined in law as one man and one woman. Homosexual relationships did not fit that definition. Asking the government to change it is not about "rights". It is about redefining a social institution.

And no, it's NOT like the mainly-extinct interracial marriage debate, no matter how many arrogant white privileged libs spout that line of bollocks off. The definition of marriage was not at issue there: it was always "one man and one woman". The issue was who could marry who, in this case unjust racial restrictions being applied. The raising of the age for marriage after the industrial revolution extended the concept of childhood or introduced a concept of adolescence as a social phase did not redefine marriage either; it changed who was eligible for marriage (say, 16-year-olds instead of 10-year-olds and up) but kept "one man, one woman". This is the only Western movement since the advent of Christianity to challenge the marriage definition and therefore cannot be considered on the same terms as any other social movement.

Extro doesn't exactly do any favours for her religion if you want us to believe that not all Christians are delusional, naive morons.

Yes Kritiq, I agree. There is also a silent majority who may now feel in the mood to make their views heard.

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but to shove them on to someone else or to use it in medical practise is barbaric.
The lady was already losing her baby, so surely her life should have been made priority.

or refer to Him as "my god" as if they get to live in a whole 'nother universe where He isn't judging them and He doesn't even deserve a capital letter

He is your god though. (whether capitalised depends on whether the word is being used as a proper noun or not). You believe your God is real; you have no proof of this. You believe He is judging everyone; you have no objective evidence for this.
There is no evidence that He exists anywhere other than in the minds of His believers. The same applies to other gods - past and present - that people have believed in, ones you probably don't think 'deserve' a capital letter.

Making laws which apply to everyone based on unprovable beliefs contravenes the ethical principles of many people including Christians of a different hue.

One poster is not representative of Christianity.

But changing a social construct to allow a childhood, is OK, but changing it to allow same sex relationships to have equal footing in society isn't? So some change is OK, but some isn't?

Better hope your kids aren't gay, hey?

Oh and Christians who belong to groups like the "Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice" are almost as bad as atheists to me, KRITIQ. They dilute what should be a united Christian witness in favour of the unborn, traditional marriage, abstinence, parents' rights and other pro-family positions and a united witness AGAINST worldly secularist views- a bulwark against Fitzrovia's "sophisticates" and "cosmopolitans" in every small town and village of the country.

Shame that's not true any more, and it is almost as much the fault of religious "progressives" and their phony theology as it is secular atheists.

Kritiq I don't think people are having a 'pop at Irish people'. I know this world wide criticism is uncomfortable for lots of Irish people but the fact of the matter is that Irish people need to shoulder some of the blame for what happened to Savita. Her blood is on the nation's hands.

I can only hope that this current focus on Ireland's utterly backward stance on abortion ensures change. At last Enda Kenny will be forced to face the matter head on instead of hiding behind his pathetic line that the abortion issue isn't a priority for his government.

Cowardly, cowardly politicians.

Marriage has always been defined in law as one man and one woman

You mean 'Christian' marriage.

Religion trumping best medical practice is the issue here.

Extrospectiv: I do hate the idea of advocating the legalisation of injecting killer potassium chloride into a healthy 36-week fetus' heart just because the woman WANTS it.

That isn't what this thread is about is it? I think you are deliberately trying to distort the argument. Savita's baby was only at 17 weeks gestation when she started to miscarry, so no one would have been injecting potassium chloride into a 36 week old foetuses heart in this case. I haven't heard the medical profession say that they could have stopped the miscarriage and as others have said, no foetus born at 17 weeks is viable. Irish obstetricians are not afraid to induce or speed up labour at term so I fail to see why they couldn't speed things up in this case. This might have saved Savita or given her a better chance, but we will never know.

"or refer to Him as "my god" as if they get to live in a whole 'nother universe where He isn't judging them and He doesn't even deserve a capital letter"

Yep- I d live in that universe!

extro- what's your stance on capital punishment?

Your god is imaginary, "Extro*. And thank fuck for that. If it actually existed, I wouldn't worship such a repellent, immoral tyrant.

I'm glad I'm in what seems to be a list of human rights advocates, who believe that autonomy and dignity belong to everyone. But this is weird stalker-ish behaviour, extro, as well as insulting and inaccurate. I don't express myself hatefully or offensively - that's what you are doing here. And I'm not sure I've ever said anything against homeschooling or in favour of one-world government, whatever that is.

It's also pretty nasty to derail a thread about a very real tragedy into bullying and name-calling of anyone who doesn't share your political views.

I meant I agree with your second paragraph Kritiq. I haven't seen people attacking 'the Irish' as any of the things you've mentioned.

That line about gay kids is offensive and gratuitous.

Same-sex sex is sinful so society should not offer it equal footing. I believe the state should not persecute consenting adults for sexual sin but they should also refrain from certifying or celebrating such sin, which is why I oppose homosexual marriages, and why Christians in America who did not challenge sexually explicit private shows (in accordance with free speech and religious liberty) tried to have the publicly-funded National Endowment for the Arts withdraw a Mapplethorpe exhibition of sodomy, urolagnia and fisting.

And marriage is a God-given construct, not one made up by man, so changing it beyond His limits is wrong.

Yep- I d live in that universe!

You already do, Seeker.

You know, Extrospektiv has managed to unite an awful lot of us on this thread .

In fact, if the likes of her would come and campaign for pro-life during the next referendum, I bet Ireland would vote for abortion.

Christian in inverted commas? Christian marriage exists, so no scare quotes necessary. Also one man/one woman definition of marriage has never been exclusive to "Christendom" and predates it by millennia.

I have seen plenty of posts opposing homeschooling. There are some negative aspects which are perfectly normal and mainstream to discuss but when people start bringing up "safeguarding" and assuming it's a cover for evil child abusers, or say the government should regulate it so heavily it would become impracticable, or accuse "fundamentalists" of using it to "brainwash" their children into their "imaginary sky god repressive anti choice homophobe bigoted woman hating worldview" (a composite of all the charges thrown at religion on this site) they are being extreme.