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Newsnight Fri 2 Nov please watch v Important you know who is running the country

999 replies

MrsjREwing · 02/11/2012 11:53

Tom Watkins tweeted a seniour politician will be outed tonight and Max Clifford said on Daybreak shocking news will be released by the BBC today.

OP posts:
Hummingbirds · 03/11/2012 13:50

Claig, when the courts are silencing the victims, I think the last refuge the victims have is to let the information come out through word of mouth. I agree that these are only allegations, and it is the job of the courts to deal with evidence. But that can only happen if and when the judges' bizarre protection of certain persons is investigated.

claig · 03/11/2012 13:55

Hummingbirds, you are right. The cover up has been a disgrace and I believe that lots and lots of people heard rumours and gossip and did nothing.

We have seen before thing that turned out to be an open secret in Westminster circles among journalists, lobbyists, politicians and the great and the good, but which were never told to the plebs.

claig · 03/11/2012 13:59

The MP expenses scandal seems to have been an open secret in some circles, but was not revealed to the plebs.

isupposeimabitofafraud · 03/11/2012 14:14

Hummingbirds Sat 03-Nov-12 13:20:49
Claig, why should the link be removed? It is the site of a man whose entire life was ruined by being sexually abused in a 'care' home. After a life of crime, he now champions the rights of prisoners. Perhaps he has knowledge from the victims themselves. Why silence him?

Its not about silencing him. If he wants to put that on the internet that for him to do and accept the consequences. But Mumsnet haven't made that decision, that they think its acceptable to do, and that does create a problem for them in terms of the law as they are 'mainstream'. What we are talking about in terms of difference is how it affects the general public and justice in general.

The trouble with publishing all these names widely without evidence, is that any conviction is potentially 'unsafe' because its pretty reasonable to be able to argue that the offender didn't get a fair trial.

If you think about who we are talking about trying to pin; officials with money, influence and intelligence then they are likely to use every trick in the book including that one.

Would it be justice for the victims if, after all this, someone was found guilty only to walk free on technicalities?

Just because we have lost our faith in the institutions which are supposed to just fair justice, doesn't mean we should abandon the principles upon which they were founded and resort to mob justice. It means we have to rebuild these institutions and the faith we have them instead and to do that, it is essential that those principles are applied to everyone unlike in the past.

The problem started in this particular case when the men involved were protected from media coverage during the tribunal which was against what would normally happen. Unfortunately since that decision was made, their names coming up now do so without proper evidence about why their names were mentioned in the first place. So now we have a situation where putting their names out there in this way jeopardises justice, and means because we have no official account that the wrong names could be being thrown around.

I do think the internet has the power to apply pressure and force this to go to through legal challenges. It doesn't necessarily mean we need to witchhunt at every opportunity though, and any media outlet with power and influence of the same nature as Mumsnet has a duty not to encourage that too much. There are plenty of news articles and blogs out there which are can be used to argue the case about this and push the agenda and force the changes we need thanks to the exposure of Jimmy Savile and the house of cards starting to fall.

What we need now at this stage is, an official reopening of the enquiry and an official release of the names of the people concerned so that the press can pick apart things properly and that such injunctions are not allowed to be used again in this way as they are not in the public interest, not in the interest of the victims and not actually in the interests of the accused either if 15 years down the line things are going to come out in drips without proper evidence behind them.

The rot has to stop at this point, and that doesn't happen by having a few lynchings. Public executions after the process of law has to prevail for justice to be served.

claig · 03/11/2012 14:23

Well said again, isuppose.

HotheadPaisan · 03/11/2012 14:23

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Tipsandshoots · 03/11/2012 14:23

Hi hell,
John McAleese was the sad guy in the Iranian seige. He died at 61 leaving his 23 yr old wife and their two children in Greece. His had 2 children from an earlier marriage 26 and 29 . I am trying to see which were the mps he looked after.

Tipsandshoots · 03/11/2012 14:24

Sad not sad although a bit Freudian though

Tipsandshoots · 03/11/2012 14:24

Sas ffs

HotheadPaisan · 03/11/2012 14:26

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Tipsandshoots · 03/11/2012 14:31

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sas-hero-john-mcaleeses-daughter-273247

Hi second wife was 42 when he died and his eldest son was 29 when he died 2 years before he himself died.
His second wife said he wasn't computer literate so whoses photos were they then. Still cant find the pm though.

claig · 03/11/2012 14:31

I think we will see some celebs arrested, but I wonder if it will go any higher.

HotheadPaisan · 03/11/2012 14:32

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NapOfTheDamned · 03/11/2012 14:36

Please read this blog about being a girl at the approved school where Meirion Jones aunt was the Head...and ow the ex Head has been stitched up.

www.annaraccoon.com/politics/past-lives-and-present-misgivings-part-seven/

HotheadPaisan · 03/11/2012 14:37

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HotheadPaisan · 03/11/2012 14:40

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AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 03/11/2012 14:44

i don't think that's in dispute, nowadays. but back then, according to a v good friend of mine, it was just currency in an economy.

this is not to justify any of this IN ANY FORM, but in that andrew o hagan piece in the LRofB, Joan Bakewell likened this culture shock that we're now experiencing (but HOW could no-one have done anything, said anything etc) as similar to them looking at the victorians. putting children up chimneys is so obviously wrong, and yet a hundred or so years ago it was happening here. cultures do shift.

HotheadPaisan · 03/11/2012 14:54

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Tipsandshoots · 03/11/2012 14:56

John McCaleese received the military medal for gallantry whilst stationed in Northern Ireland in 1988.
After that he was a bodyguard to prime ministers and members of the Royal Family.
After leaving the services he worked as a security consultant in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He served as presenter in the BBC 2003 series ' SAS are you tough enough '
So that would be thatcher, major, and blair

HotheadPaisan · 03/11/2012 14:59

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AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 03/11/2012 15:11

and they are still being put up chimneys or used for gruelling work in other countries as well.
i'm not disagreeing with you at all, paisan, i just thought it was an interesting observation by bakewell. when i think of some of the sexism i've personally shrugged off i want to slap my own head. it's bred into us, i think, and how to not do same for dds?

mignonette · 03/11/2012 15:17

From PebBr-

"It seems that there are so many 'sworded' paedophiles that perhaps we should consider replacing their titles with a separate dis-honour just for them, Shites of the kinder-Garter-n. At least then people would see these viperous chameleons' true colours."

HotheadPaisan · 03/11/2012 15:24

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