Newsnight Fri 2 Nov please watch v Important you know who is running the country

[MrsjREwing]

Tom Watkins tweeted a seniour politician will be outed tonight and Max Clifford said on Daybreak shocking news will be released by the BBC today.

I said "just leave it to the police" because I cannot see a better way to conduct the current enquiry. Is there however a better open now? I cannot think of any alternatives with the capability to conduct a criminal investigation in a wat that could lead to sound convictions.

And once the current criminal investigations are concluded, then there needs to be a proper enquiry into why things that are alleged now to have been so widely known were not dealt with at the time. And to do whatever can be done to precent similar happening in future. But again, there may be better ways of doing this, within the law at present, and I'd be interested to know what they are.

Growlithe it is possible that other survivors who have suffered at the alleged perpatrators hands might read something not unlike this thread via social media and then feel a bit braver about coming forward if their alleged attackers name is already out there.

'The Overton window is a political theory that describes as a narrow "window" the range of ideas that the public will find acceptable, and that states that the political viability of an idea is defined primarily by this rather than by politicians' individual preferences'

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

Iain Overton tweeted that Newsnight was going to discuss it this morning.

The solicitor on Newsnight said something like at that time the idea that politicians and celebrities could be involved in child abuse seemed a bit far-fetched but based on recent revelations this is no longer far-fetched.

It looks like the Overton window has been shifted for everyone except the conspiracy theory bloggers.

Why now?

Growlithe please read this thread particularly the post at 20.19.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/1601447-So-annoyed-about-this-story-js?pg=1

absolutely agree Dreams... we are governed by these people, and it makes me feel like grabbing my kids and running for the hills!

I haven't seen the other threads that MN pulled and wouldn't be surprised if this goes too for naming names.

The newsnight piece was just so sad that no-one believed him and no doubt the countless other children like him that have been completely and utterly let down by a system that allowed them to be abused in the most awful ways.

Whoever these nameless faces are - whether named on here or not - I hope that the police prosecute these vile cowardly bastards and bring them to face the justice they fucking deserve for what they have done, moneyed influence or not.

The real problem is is that the allegations relate to power people, I guess that throws everything in the air. Of course we need to know who they are, they effect our everyday life.

I dont know, Im tired, I hate witch hunts but I really don think this is one, people just want to know the truth and because it appears that most high institutions are involved people dont trust them. I mean, look the two people arrested and questioned so far are GG and FS, z list celebrities, no one with any power, and yet we know that it goes much deeper than z lists.

Lots of things must have been known by newspapers for many, many years. The phone hacking scandal has shown us that all sorts of secrets were known. But nothing ever came out. But now we are getting the "tsunami of filth".

Growlithe

I'm with Dreams on this. I think the establishment have happily protected their own and the only thing that will stop them continuing to do so is that there is so much public pressure and public knowledge that a cover up becomes impossible or so damaging to the establishment that they have to do something.

JS was head of a Broadmoor taskforce by Edwina Currie.

Dennis MacShane quit as an MP today for fiddling his expenses - think how the MP's welcomed that investigation when it happened - they had all been abusing the system for years and it took a whistleblower and media and public pressure to force any action.

Sometimes the establishment has to be shamed into acting.

Hillsborough. Don't forget it. It has blown wide open a huge can of worms.

There were huge cover ups during that period.

What that man said tonight was important. When you were all sitting there waiting for them to name names. He said His statement was changed and he was only allowed to give evidence on the edited statement.

FFS Does noone see a pattern here? Does noone see a fucking great big picture emerging???

Grow, problem is we now know people in authority have been keeping dirty secrets for a very long time indeed. Including the police - every time there was a complaint about Savile, mysteriously the police would find 'no evidence' without actually bothering to try and find any (i.e. not even speaking to the former head of Duncroft). And including the supposed official inquiry into wholesale appalling child abuse in North Wales children's homes, where we now discover the victims weren't allowed to say who had abuse them and the press weren't allowed to report any of the evidence anyway.

You are right that there is something extremely dangerous in a Twitter fever where people are frantically bandying about names without any evidence... but the authorities have not merely failed, they have been deliberately obstructive. People have to speculate because no bastard has ever even been properly investigated, let alone held to account. If the police, the courts, social services, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all had actually done their jobs at any point in the last 40 years, there would be no need for speculation. (And if the BBC had not been so keen to let star status blind everyone to wrongdoing, and if the newspapers had not been so reluctant to take Savile on, and if the libel laws weren't so appalling in this country that they protect rich powerful wrong-doers but leave ordinary innocent people with no redress...)

V good point re statement-fixing though, Grow. But that wasn't the only thing wrong with that inquiry, very far from it.

Why werent the BBC so quick to hand over Savile? Tonights newsnight is a little bit too little too late. I agree with whats been said on here, that throwing names into the ring isnt helpful.

All these blogs are just conspiracy-theorist fantasists, and the people commenting on them are vile

ALL? Do you realise how many blogs & threads all over the internet have been naming Savile as a pervert for years? And there were an equal number of people (sorry, just like you) dismissing it all as vile conspiracy theories. "Why aren't the police involved then?" was a common question. Because they didn't want to be, unfortunately.

I don't doubt for a moment that there are, and always have been, people with some power abusing their position and having the resources to cover up for themselves. A common theme seems to be that they WERE reported to the police & nothing came of it.

What are victims supposed to do then? Slink off to the corner feeling unimportant and overlooked? Fuck that. If it was me, I would be getting the information out there in any way I could - and it seems that some of them have. How nice that without any actual justification you've dismissed them as "vile fantasists". How do you know that?

I agree - there should be no trial by media, and it's horrendous that there could be completely innocent names being bandied about. But what this must, must, must do is finally bring it home to the powers that be that NOBODY is too big, too influential, too important to evade prosecution.

'Why werent the BBC so quick to hand over Savile?'

For the same reason as no one else was either, probably.

The solicitor on Newsnight said that the allegations were being made for decades.

The abuse of in children's homes is a national scandal - and very, very real. A close family member of mine was in a boy's children's home in Surrey - and was repeatedly raped by staff and older boys all the time he was there. (Not, as far as I'm aware by anyone mentioned on these threads). On this basis, I am not struggling to believe some of the tales from the "vile fantasists".

A flood gate has been opened.

I questioned a few days ago whether the general public really want this all to come out as it would be so shocking, maybe people dont, easier for people to believe that alls right in the world.

What I don't understand is why did it take 1 year for the Savile story to come out after Newsnight started investigating it and why do we wait all day from Iain Overton's tweet before Newsnight releases the report. Why do other media organisations not jump the gun over the entire year or day as they surely know what the story is likely to be and surely have info as well. Why do they let Newsnight break the story? Do they form an orderly queue?

Exactly claig, this is a massive massive story, what are they all scared off? I thought we led the way for investigative journalism? obviously not!

For most news stories we have assumed that they all want the scoop, but this seems different.

It is starting to look like we lead the way for cover-ups and whitewashes

The most important thing was said tonight. Those boys were not allowed to name that name in court, because their statements had been changed. They were rendered powerless.

Similarly, the Hillsborough families were given a cut off point of 3.15 for time of death, so they were rendered powerless for challenging the critical errors occurring after this time which were so obviously crucial.

The crimes are hideous vile crimes. There were perpetrators and there are victims. And all of these are very very important.

But what is important to you, sitting there tonight in your home, is not the names of the victims, or the perpetrators. Even if they are in public office, because they won't be after arrest.

What should be crucially, crucially important to you, sitting there in your homes, with your families, is a fundamental belief in a transparent justice system.

We had evidence tonight, in that Newsnight, that there is not a transparent justice system. And that was not the first evidence of that we have had this year.

That should worry all of you more than names, because as the families of Hillsborough will tell you, it is of the utmost importance to have a transparent justice system.

So this 'not-yet-named' politial figure has allegedly threatened to sue if NN broadcast his identity.
And? If it's common knowledge that he's done these things, on what grounds would he sue? Wouldn't it be similar to when the Mail published the names of Stephen Lawrence's killers, inviting them to go ahead and sue, knowing full well they wouldn't have a leg to stand on?

Agree clam, and I thought exactly the same about Savile's supposed threats to sue and stop his marathon runs. Pull the other one, it's got a shellsuit on it.