Are you in favour of Scotland leaving the UK?

[LadyMaryCreepyCrawley]

Lucky bastards!

Droves, that's not it... Have a look at this...

www.flickr.com/photos/potatojunkie/8087151692/sizes/o/

Unless england votes labour instead of Tory, the Tories will stay in power.

But ..is not more of north England swinging away from voting Tory in the poles .

Overall it will mean less labour votes , less labour seats in Westminster and more chance torys get back in without the lib-dems to hold them back a little .

England should be worried .

I have seen nobody condone racism on this thread. The only racist post has been deleted by hq.

I don't recollect saying anything negative about English people In general although it's clear I don't like a few of the Westminster politicians much. Some of whom are Scottish - e.g Gove.

ItsAllGoingToBeFind

An interesting graphic but its too general to be effective.

In the event of the Scots running off with the IrnBru and Stovies in 2014, the perception is that the rest of the UK will be in permanent Tory rule.

However, using the figures since Attlee's '45 Government as a guide, and deducting Scotland's MP's from the total, only once did it make a difference on which party took power - in 2010. On two other occasions, it would have swung a Labour Government to a hung parliament.

I've used this following link a few times and it makes illuminating reading.

wingsland.podgamer.com/why-labour-doesnt-need-scotland/

@ scots running off with the irnbru and stovies

Let's talk about NATO. You know you want to really.

Alex Salmond and the SNP are saying that an independent Scotland would be a member of NATO. Yes that NATO - the one that got involved in an 'illegal', his words, war in Kosovo.

But still. We're independent and we're members of NATO. Somewhere in the world there's a country that hates America. Hard to believe, but bear with me. This country having gradually grown in power and influence over the last 10 years or so, decides the time is ripe to attack the good ol' U S of A. It looks around for a handy little launch pad just across the Atlantic for somewhere to base its nuclear weapons.

Scotland is sitting, like the duck, waiting for these weapons. (Sorry - I've slipped into Poirot mode. For reasons that are not at all clear). The big country invades us! Mais c'est affreux, mes amis! Qu'est-ce qu'on peut faire? We give the Uncle Sam a call on the telephone. 'Please 'elp us!'

The skies fill with American bombers. They bomb the nuclear bases of the vile enemy. Unfortunately, they bomb also the cow in the field, the pig, and yes, mes amis, the people in the city. We are all bombed to smithereens.

Helas! (without the accent) It is the sad story, no? But the Americans have been known to fight their battles in other countries. In fact one could say they are almost making a habit of it.

Far-fetched? Scaremongering? Of course I am. Mind how you go now. And don't have nightmares.

LOVE it. it is just a teeny bit far-fetched, though, considering how many Yanks are from Jockoland originally.

Oh and it's just come to me. The French connection. Before we were one with England and Wales and N Ireland, there was such a thing as the Auld Alliance. Remember that? When we were the epicentre of all the anti-English plots that were going on round the world? Lucky that everyone loves England nowadays.

I don't think England would allow that to happen again. Or maybe it is already. After all, if I was a hostile foreign power I would be rubbing my hands in glee at the thought of the weakening of the United Kingdom and the possibility of getting in with Alex Salmond.

And how would our Armed Forces react to not being British any more? Does the Scottish Defence Force have the same ring to it, I wonder?

TRUE, AitchTwoOh. Saved. What a relief.

lol.

apart from the bit about the armed forces, which i didn't understand. i would have thought (guessed, i'm basing this on actually zero facts) that a jock serving man or woman would love to fight for a scottish military.

They might. I wondered that as well. But if one of my family was in the army (navy, airforce), I think I would rather they were part of a bigger operation. I certainly wouldn't ever want to be on the other side to them ...

Maybe a smaller force would mean a better chance of promotion for a service man or woman. Or maybe it would mean a huge loss of status - which it would for the top brass, I imagine.

... the other side to the British Army, I meant.

i guess they would have the option of remaining in the RoUK army? they're free agents, aren't they?

Well,they are contracted to the British Army, so maybe they would have to stay until the end of their contracts. So maybe a SDF would be started up in Scotland from scratch.

So could we have the situation of a brother in the RoUK force and his sister in the SDF?? It just gets better ..

mmm. kind of a stoopid reason to ditch independence i think. it's always been possible to have family in opposing armies, in fact angry brothers in royal families are very often the starting place for wars...

But the lads and lasses in the Armed Forces are the ones who would have to bear the brunt if it all went pear-shaped.

Not that it will, of course. In Alex Salmond-land we're all going to start loving each other and teaching the world to sing.

Once we're independent.

The military question is one i have often thought about. DH is RAF. He's done 26 years of service to the UK.

Now if Scotland got indpendance I could see the Army being called the Scottish Army, after all they have all the scottish regiments ,..................................................oops silly me, they aren't regiments anymore are they, they are battalions the KOSB will always be that to me. But I do wonder how the Navy, RAF,RM would come off.

There's a huge shake-up going on anyway in all the Armed Forces. I wonder what form it is taking. Anyone who knows that will know what's projected to happen between the two countries in the unlikely event of Scottish Independence, I should imagine. If they start taking troops/air bases out of Scotland, for example. Which they are already doing.

There is a general scaling-down (which has to be a good sign - ie that no-one thinks any big conflict is imminent - although I am very sorry for the people who have lost their jobs). And the TAs are going to be Reserves, I think.

I used to fantasise about an independent Scotland along the lines of Finland or Norway, neutral and just peacefully doing its own thing, with no nuclear weapons, fishing its own seas and tending its sheep.

But that couldn't happen, I don't think. In the event of a conflict like the one I so scientifically outlined above, we would be right in the firing line, with nowhere to hide.

But then we are anyway, as part of the UK.

at least with you havign the Princess Catherine figurine there's no question mark over where your loyalties lie, Saltire.

Should be an interesting Question Time tonight.

Great non biased question time tonight then.

The fishwife Margaret Curran really is a piece of work eh.

Hard to believe I'm in the same party as she is.....

The usual tactics were deployed by No campaign I see, the booing and talking over anyone not on the same side.
Another 2 years of this shite to look forward to eh.
The trade Union guy was a bit of a surprise, tried to get reasonable debate going.
Curran is a piece of work, I remember her absolutely ungracious victory speech at the last election, embarrassment.

I was quite surprised too - i thought part of the Edinburgh agreement was that the BBC had to report independence issues in an unbiased fashion.

The makeup of last night's question time panel was almost totally unionist, as was the make up of the audience (although to be fair the nats were louder!)

I've got a bit of a crush on the that trade union guy though, he was great