Charlie Hebdo

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Charlie Hebdo publishes satirical cartoons

No-one catch this little gem? The mag in question has a long track record for publishing offensive satirical cartoons featuring religious and other figures and decided to give the prophet Mohammed the same treatment this week, depicting him in the buff. On the one hand they're showing no fear or favour and it's a noble stand for free speech, on the other you can't help wondering if they haven't just poked an already angry dog with a very big stick.

To those coming out with variations on "Freedom of speech does not mean you have the freedom to offend" you are wrong and if you think that justifies killing people then you should be ashamed.

Well said Back. NOTHING justifies murder. But The Guardian thinks that the magazine brought it upon itself

I can scarcely believe the tone of many comments; namely that freedom of speech was abused and therefore brought the horrific consequences.

Not that I think there is a logical fallacy at work here, I think we can all agree that the cartoonists were very brave men.

My disbelief stems from the level of fear inherent in such a thought process. If I say or do x then I can expect y to happen to me.

Indeed many comments appear to go further, reading between the lines somewhat ( something I hope you will forgive me for if I am incorrect ) I infer that many people actually respect the terrorists actions....

I am somewhat shocked I have to say.

" But The Guardian thinks that the magazine brought it upon itself."

Link?

But The Guardian thinks that the magazine brought it upon itself

Any link to that as the four main comment pieces on the Guardian site today are "The answer to the horror in Paris is more writing and sceptical laughter", "Charlie Hebdo: Now is the time to uphold freedoms and not give in to fear", "The Charlie Hebdo killers must not silence us. We should ridicule them", and " Charlie Hebdo's spirit will endure, despite this atrocity"?

Did the Guardian take a piece down? This morning Radio 5 live made a reference to a UK newspaper saying something along Wet August's lines.

Bakewell the Financial Times has a piece accusing the magazine of baiting Muslims and bringing it on themselves, which has been widely criticised, so I think that was what R5 was referring to.

Thank you.

If you want to live in a free society, you have to put up with being offended sometimes. Censoring political speech, and satire is a form of political speech, is the very last thing we should do.

I totally disagree with the idea that the magazine was responsible for what happened. People have every right to be upset and offended, that never has and never will trump the right a person has to life. It doesn't trump the right to live without fear or retribution. Murderers are murderers regardless of their self appointed 'cause'.
The Daily Mail and the Sun offend me. Offend me and the values I choose to live by on a daily sodding basis it seems. Even without buying it I can't seem to avoid it. Can I go and kill them? Can I feck. They will continue to spout their shit and I shall stand and defend their right to do so (whilst secretly hoping their readership slumps and they have a change of heart and agree with me instead ). Because that's how humans with morals behave. And no amount of idiots with guns will make me change that view.

Financial Times Article us a disgrace. It's the same as blaming a road victim for wearing a mini skirt. there are some very wrong-thinking people out there but the surprising thing is that they are journalists and editorial control has sanctioned these perverse views. Reject them

Sorry if already posted, what do you think of this idea?

We've bought the idea that Islamic terrorists are genuinely outraged by satirical cartoons. But maybe we're playing into their hands

I actually agree with that article. In a way it would be interesting if the terrorists genuinely felt mortally wounded by the cartoons, so intensely do they carry the words of the prophet in their heart. But I suspect actually they are just moronic, disaffected thugs looking for a gang to join. They found a way to get a sort of heroic status as fighters for Islam but actually they are just idiots who hooked their wagon to this cause and it seemed to give legitimacy and meaning to their lives.

Not that it would be any better if they sincerely felt the "insult" that appears to be at the heart of this. But I think it might just be a red herring.

Oh the article could be right or partly right in any given incident. But it's dismissing the notion that Islam might itself be a root cause.

Also an article like that leads to the idea that we'll make it better if we stop giving them excuses. So next thing you know we're saying:

"let's ban the cartoons ourselves so they can't use them as an excuse"

"Let's remove all the comments on social media that might look anti-muslim"

"Let's not arrest those rioters in case some happen to be Muslim and we'll look Islamaphobic"

"Dismiss this claim of domestic abuse or child abuse because the accused is Muslim and it might look bad"

Should we get down on our knees so we don't look threatening?

I really admired this piece by the cartoonist Martin Rowson in response to Rupert Murdoch's decision to apologise to Binyamin Netanyahu for

this Gerald Scarfe cartoon in The Sunday Times

The cartoon's imagery and timing were deeply offensive. I'm sure that was Scarfe's intention.

It was published two years ago and I'm still not sure what I think about it. I support Israel's right to exist and accept that bad things are done in causes that are good.

The truth is that I'm too squeamish to want to think about that. But I know one thing. I want people to make me think.

Martin Rowson is giving an interview on Sky right now. It's fantastic.

The irony is that he's being interviewed by Kay Burley, but we can't have everything

It's satire I suppose

Mark Lawson is right. But while Cameron maintains asche dud today that it is "nothing to do with Islam" the horrors will continue unchecked

we need moderate Muslims to acknowledge that it is everything to do with an interpretation of Islam - but they cannot, for fear of being labelled apostate. so no reformation from within and the horrors continue unchecked.

""Dismiss this claim of domestic abuse or child abuse because the accused is Muslim and it might look bad""

How far down the road to this do you think we are?

Denis MacShane , the disgraced Labour MP who was jailed for stealing expense money, happily looked the other way whilst 1400 schoolgirls were raped, reportedly because he is a, "Guardian reading liberal lefty" who, "Didn't want to rock the multicultural boat". Labour councillors and other political figures have also been implicated.

As far as official figures show there were probably only between 5 and 10,000 schoolgirls of likely age in his constituency, If your daughter had a 1 in 3 chance of being gang raped by Muslim paedophile gangs I suspect you'd expect your MP to do something about it.

Is it possible to get further down the road?

we need moderate Muslims to acknowledge that it is everything to do with an interpretation of Islam

Really? I deeply resent the idea that I should apologise for my job - journalist - because they're all bastards, aren't they?

I'm not. I like to think i'm a decent person who shouldn't have to constantly apologise for bastards who happen to share my job description as a reason for my continued existence.

Part of my decency is presuming that most Muslims are decent people too.

I don't know limited. I'm in a hated profession too (sort of banker) and I am happy to stand up and say that kind of banker shit is unacceptable. I get a lot of grief for my job and I'm sort of happy to take it. Self-pitying bankers are worse than anything.

I am sure that most muslims are horrified by this. But I do think there needs to be more standing up and insisting that our values are right. By all of us. Anglos like me. Muslims who live here. Everyone. Anyone who basically enjoys what life in a Western democracy brings. I am absolutely boiling with rage with our homegrown terrorists who have gone to university and studied Sports Science of all things, and then turn on us. We absolutely should stand up and say no. We will defend this life that we have built on our principles that we believe in. And anyone who wants to live here should do the same.

Self-pitying bankers are worse than anything

Surely not as bad as self-pitying journalists?

Bet you earn more than me.

You bitch.

Rich bitch, if you don't mind

Hee hee

Personally I never really got what was particularly satirical or funny or clever about the cartoons depicting Mohammed. Not just the ones in Charlie Hebdo. It struck me as just a way to cause the most shock. All done by left leaning people presumably trying to make a point about freedom of speech. The thing is that the byproduct of offending all Muslims and stirring up more discontent amonst Isamic zealots they also fed the fire of Islamaphobia amongst non- Muslims. Outraged rightwingers wringing their hands about Muslims being insulted about these images-'Western freedom of expression innit'.
So in the end the only people who gained anything were the parties that the people at Charlie Hebdo were trying to fight against. Freedom of expression at any cost I suppose.
I noticed today on my facebook that the 2 or 3 people who had 'Je suis Charlie' notices were my UKIP 'friends' who regularly putting xenophobic rubbish on there.

None of which justifies violence of any sort.

I also agree with the article linked by CFSKate. These young men aren't really offended by this article. They have found this cause which makes them feel powerful and important. It has happened the world over.