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Charlie Hebdo

293 replies

CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/09/2012 09:52

Charlie Hebdo publishes satirical cartoons

No-one catch this little gem? The mag in question has a long track record for publishing offensive satirical cartoons featuring religious and other figures and decided to give the prophet Mohammed the same treatment this week, depicting him in the buff. On the one hand they're showing no fear or favour and it's a noble stand for free speech, on the other you can't help wondering if they haven't just poked an already angry dog with a very big stick.

OP posts:
BakewellSlice · 07/01/2015 14:12

Mama: Mumsnet is quite a squeamish group run along the lines of being supportive - I'ts not here to uphold freedom of speech.

I never liked Charlie Hebdo myself but they operate within the laws of France.

Minus2seventy3 · 07/01/2015 14:13

Nothing sacred about Mo. He was a messenger, nothing more.
The Son of God trumps a fucking prophet, and Christians/Westerners aren't afraid of mocking Jesus.
Mock Christianity and the worst thing to happen is something akin to Father Ted, a muttering of "down with this sort of thing... "
Mock Islam, and... Well you know what happens next.

Choudary's tweets this afternoon should land him in cuffs for inciting terrorism as well. Hateful man.

RubbishRobotFromTheDawnOfTime · 07/01/2015 14:14

I don't disagree that many people will have had their feelings hurt by the cartoon being published. It's not 'nice' to deliberately offend someone for the sake of it.

But the role of magazines like this is to push at boundaries and poke fun at taboos. How could anybody justify this horrific violent response, ending the lives of 12 civilians, just because of hurt feelings? I will never begin to understand it.

MisForMumNotMaid · 07/01/2015 14:15

There has been two and a half years since the publication of the offensive cartoons that any person could have gone through powers that be in France to take appropriate action. They (the offended/ anyone who feels they were effected) could surely have cited inciting violence.

Has anyone?

On the one hand we are told that written word/ drawn images can cause such offence to justify reprisal. On the other the reprisal we see is always violence. Why if written word is considered so powerful is the reaction physical?

I don't believe there is any justification for intentionally taking anothers life.

There is no action that those people who have died could have done to deserve this treatment.

pinkhousesarebest · 07/01/2015 14:29

"If you start by asking whether or not you have the right or not to draw Muhammad … then the next question is, can you put Muslims in the paper? And then, can you put human beings in the paper?
In the end, you can’t put anything in, and the handful of extremists who are agitating around the world and in France will have won."
Stéphane Charbonnier, who sadly lost his life this morning. You surely have to agree with him. But was it worth the sacrifice for him and his family, and all the other people in the office who were just doing their days work? Don't know.

Thereyouarepeter · 07/01/2015 14:33

pink

This is what makes me so angry about the apologists on this thread. This man was prepared to die for freedom of the press and freedom of speech. Rights that countless other people have fought and continue to die for.

Then there are other people arguing about someones right to not be offended - by a cartoon - it's farcical. Only religion can warp logic in this way.

lemisscared · 07/01/2015 15:02

WTF is an apologist? FFS - What man? only 12 people died today, two of whom were police officers? Did they choose to die for their right to mock?

I would have thought the levingson (sorry im a bit thick and can't spell) enquiry made it perfectly7 clear that the press go too far!

badtime · 07/01/2015 15:02

Mama1980: Freedom of speech does not mean you have the freedom to offend, insult and hurt

You are entirely wrong. What is the point of having freedom of speech only to say things nobody objects to?

BreakWindandFire · 07/01/2015 15:04

If I'm only free to speak on condition that no-one can possibly claim to be offended, then I'm not free to speak.

AngelDreams · 07/01/2015 15:09

Mama1980: Freedom of speech does not mean you have the freedom to offend, insult and hurt

badtime You are entirely wrong. What is the point of having freedom of speech only to say things nobody objects to?

thats an interesting point to make,
is it right to insult someone? no - its not
is it right to insult someone? no - its not
is it right to offend someone? sometimes - just because you believe something doesnt make it so, and people can be offended just randomly, but you should act in a way that you would not be ashamed to put your name next to (not all of us do, and to be honest,.... i dont always)

Nancy66 · 07/01/2015 15:09

gosh, you said it Lem. You really are a bit thick.

KareninsGirl · 07/01/2015 15:21

hang on, are you saying that we shouldn't mock muhammad for fear of these brutal and deadly attacks?

lem, welcome to the world of terrorism. This us exactly their aim.

so when life of Brian was filmed did extremist christians murder people in cold blood because it mocked jesus?

father ted continually mocks Catholicism - haven't seen any reports of extremist catholics gunning people down as a result.

The producers mocks Judaism. no extremist Jews murdered anyone as a result if its release.

I could go on.

badtime · 07/01/2015 15:29

Angel, I'm not quite sure what you mean, but people can be hurt or insulted or offended by things which are not intended to do these things.

Furthermore, sometimes it is necessary to do things you know will offend people to make a larger point. This is often the case in relation to civil rights or civil liberties.

An example is the disgusted reaction people used to have to same-sex relationships being portrayed on TV - it offended people (often because it conflicted with their religious views), but that was not a good enough reason not to do it.

Thereyouarepeter · 07/01/2015 15:47

From the new yorker

Charlie Hebdo
NickiFury · 07/01/2015 16:08

I agree with every word Nancy and those supporting her say. I'm crying tears of rage watching the news coverage, how fucking DARE they? Murdering terrorist fuckers. I can't post properly right now.

Lottapianos · 07/01/2015 16:16

Nicki, I've been in tears today too. I won't be able to watch the news later on. The fact that it was a satirical newspaper office just chills me to my core. Its so incredibly sick and wrong.

WetAugust · 07/01/2015 16:21

Freedom of speech is absolutely about the right go insult, offend and ridicule the views if others. Note I used the word VIEWS. Views are something that people chose to hold, so if they hold views that you perceive as ridiculous you should have the freedom of speech to tell them so.

Freedom of speech is NOT about insulting, offending and ridiculing people for attributes such as race, disability etc as these are things that people do not voluntarily chose to adopt.

France the land of Liberty Equality and Fraternity. It's a shame that some of its citizens re so intolerant of these values and decide that they are so offended by a cartoon that they need to slaughter 12 unarmed people in cold blood.

And once you give up freedom of speech the demands will increase. That's what blackmailers do.

Just wait for the apologists now. Those who will tell you it's all our own fault for Iraq etc and that we are all at fault because we are Islamaphobic.

Well I guess a lot if people don't be buying that argument anymore.

bitofanoddone · 07/01/2015 16:22

I'm with NickiFury. Angel, the problem with your argument is that what offends you doesn't offend me (theoretically). Things like legalising same sex marriage could never have happened without people putting their money where their mouth is. Same as women getting the vote, women allowed to own property etc

On whose standards do we apply your rules?

If i was stupid I would be tempted to suggest a viral campaign to show the cartoons, how will they kill everyone?

lemisscared · 07/01/2015 16:24

Nancy i can't be bothered to engage with you.

Karenin's girl you raise a really good point. There are two isdues here - the first being that it is deeply offensive to mock mohammed for muslims. I don't pretend to know why but isn't against their religion to produce images of the profit. So it is a bit different from taking the piss out of the Catholic church. I am a Catholic and father ted us my favourite program. So for that reason it is wrong to make cartoons of this nature. It has bugger all to do with cow towing to terrorism.

I too get a bit, well fuck you, about the terrorists. The evil extremists with no respect for life. I think well up yours we'll be defiant . You wont win. But honestly,its not a game is it. People are losing their lives. This sort of incitement is costing people their lives. Is it worth it. ffs why give them an excuse?

i don't have the answer to that for myself.

i just hope that the perpetrators of this heinous crime are caught and face the full might of the law.

lemisscared · 07/01/2015 16:25

prophet* before nancy comes along and corrects my spelling

WetAugust · 07/01/2015 16:27

Throughout the Christmas period there have been a series if attacks in France where innocent pedestrians have beenkilled by people driving cars at them deliberately. Each episode was written off by the French Authorities as a lone sol fact tack or that the perpetrator had a mental illness. Everyone knew they were Islamic terrorist attacks due to eye witness accounts but the French wanted to remain in denial. Just like the Australians were with their "mentally ill" coffee shop murderer a few weeks ago.

Well they cannot pretend any more and, just like on 9/11 they have forced us to wake up and realise what's going on.

These morons have just handed Marie Le Pen the next French Presidentship.

God help us all

WetAugust · 07/01/2015 16:31

I find the halal slaughter if animals VERY offensive

I find the forced wearing of bureaus VERY offensive

I find the refusal of a Muslim taxi driver to transport a Man because he had a Guide Dog with him VERY offensive,

But I do not let that offence whip me up into such a ridiculous fervour that I want go give and slaughter innocent people

Multi culturism has to work both ways. I accept your culture and you accept mine. And mine has a rich history of satire.

emotionsecho · 07/01/2015 16:33

Lem a great any things are offensive to Muslims does it follow that we must all cease to do these things or write about them?

The magazine in question poked fun at all religions, no doubt many people of other faiths were offended by their satire but didn't resort to killing them for it.

WetAugust · 07/01/2015 16:39

I hope that this incident puts an end to all this recent stupidity of reporting people to the Police because they've dared to call someone "fat"

I hope the seriousness if this incident makes people reconsider just how precious free speech is and to understand just how easily that freedom could be lost if we appease everyone who "takes offence"

Stop TAKING offence. Just leave it alone and ignore it.

NickiFury · 07/01/2015 16:41

It's not "WRONG" to make cartoons of this nature! Murder is WRONG! Gunning down policemen on the street when they try to intervene is WRONG!

Cartoons are opinions. These cartoons did not depict any murderous or barbaric attack. They took the piss out of a religious figure and in doing upset a load of murdering terrorists who want to force their religion onto the rest of the world. Terrorists who see us as less than human and slaughter us accordingly. 12 people were murdered over a piss taking illustration.

You're talking utter shit LEM and I am reading your simplistic arguments with absolute disgust. 12 people are DEAD, over a picture and your argument is essentially that we should have respected their faith and it wouldn't have happened? Go and do some reading and get informed will you ffs!