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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

George Galloway - insertion not rape

301 replies

stargirl1701 · 20/08/2012 16:28

Just read a tweet where it is suggested former MP George Galloway feels that once a woman decides to have a sex with a men he can have sex with her subsequently, while she sleeps, as the man doesn't need consent for each "insertion"! In his view, this does not constitute rape. WTF! This is his defence of the allegations against Assange.

OP posts:
messyisthenewtidy · 21/08/2012 00:15

This is exactly what happened to me. I would like GG to know that throughout all the humiliation and worry that I suffered the next day at the clinic, and in the weeks following waiting for the results, it sure didn't feel like "just bad manners" to me....

What an ignorant privileged and entitled twat .

LePan · 21/08/2012 00:15

Hmmm.

Assange, Galloway, me. Hmmm. Modesty forbids, but.....puurleeese!

night.

NarkedRaspberry · 21/08/2012 01:47

Triggering

'In his broadcast Galloway said: "Some people believe that when you go to bed with somebody, take off your clothes, and have sex with them and then fall asleep, you're already in the sex game with them. It might be really bad manners not to have tapped her on the shoulder and said: 'Do you mind if I do it again?.' It might be really sordid and bad sexual etiquette, but whatever else it is, it is not rape or you bankrupt the term rape of all meaning."'

Utter shit.

yellowraincoat · 21/08/2012 01:48

I've just watched the full 30-minute video and I can only conclude that George Galloway has fucking lost it.

He comes across as completely bonkers.

NarkedRaspberry · 21/08/2012 01:54

I doubt he ever had it in the first place.

scottishmummy · 21/08/2012 07:06

George has never shied away from talkin keech

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 21/08/2012 07:37

Scottishmummy I am loving your work on this thread.

StewieGriffinsMom · 21/08/2012 08:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

happilyconfused · 21/08/2012 09:15

What a complete tosser! At least we now know his views on women and that we dont need to be asked about insertion. Hopefully this will be the end of such a twit on Question Time.

madas · 21/08/2012 10:38

Hi

i have a question it is a serious question not a troll or anything like that. I have read through this thread and agree GG is a pratt. My question is how would you define this (please make allowances as i find it hard to articulate my thoughts onto the screen). During my sexual encounters through my life i have on occasion woken to find the lady with her hand or mouth round my penis and on occasions the lady has got on top. I will be honest most of the time i dont mind but sometimes it has been unwelcome but i have laid back and thought of england. This is not a rare thing amongst the males i know. I will also be honest and say i have never felt violated or unclean after.

laidbackflat · 21/08/2012 10:50

Madas - the situation you describe is prima facie indecent assault at the moment the physical contact takes place (as you clearly cannot give consent to the physical contact whilst you are asleep). From what you say, howerver, you seem (to date) to have been happy to give consent as soon as you have been capable of doing the same. That does not, however, change the fact that somebody has initially engaged you in sexual conduct without your consent.

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 21/08/2012 10:54

I agree with laidback.

CailinDana · 21/08/2012 12:29

Yes that is assault madas. I would never do that to a partner unless he'd made it very clear that he really enjoyed it. Even in that case I'd feel a bit odd being sexual with someone who is unconscious - it just seems a bit, seedy, or something. Plus just because he's liked it in the past doesn't mean he'll like it every time so I would be very cagey about it for fear of upsetting him.

I think there is a distinction between a man doing this to a woman and a woman doing it to a man. A man can penetrate a woman who is completely not turned on at all - he won't necessarily stimulate her at all before trying to have sex with her. In contrast a woman has to stimulate a man before trying to have sex. That's not to say the man will enjoy it, even if he does respond, but I suppose the feeling of violation comes from the fact of someone entering your body when you are no way ready for it. Having sex when you're not turned on in the slightest is horrible - it feels like you're just being used as a hole.

yellowraincoat · 21/08/2012 12:35

I agree that it is assault.

I also think there is a distinction like CailinDana says. When someone puts their penis into a vagina without any warning or stimulation, that fucking well hurts and hurts for hours/days afterwards. It is not the same for a man. It doesn't hurt. He might well feel violated, but the physical feeling wouldn't be the same.

gettingagrip · 21/08/2012 12:51

Sorry not read whole thread - OMG Kate Copstick on Radio 2!

Jeremy Vine show - distgusting woman!

gettingagrip · 21/08/2012 13:01

also this

2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/todd-akin-legitimate-rape.php

words fail me

NameGames · 21/08/2012 13:02

getting what did Copstick say?

KRITIQ · 21/08/2012 13:16

CailinDana, your post at Mon 20-Aug-12 20:08:14 sums up very neatly something that puzzled me for a long time. I couldn't work out why so many commentators, generally on the left of the political spectrum, who I would rate for their clear and firm views on issues like racism, class, disability and other social, economic and political issues seemed to have a complete "blank spot" when it comes to sexism.

But when you look at it, they can distance themselves (or at least try) from any responsibility for the oppression of people of colour, of disabled people, of poor people, etc., and boost their "I'm right on" credentials by taking down people who say and do things that are bigoted or discriminatory on those grounds.

However, it's not quite so easy to squirm away from their gender privilege, particularly where they have and continue to benefit personally (e.g. wife, girlfriend, etc.) as well as collectively from male privilege. So, rather than "owning" their privilege and at least fessing up to the dilemmas they face (or better yet, demonstrating how they put their beliefs into action by living as non-sexist men,) they do their damned best to deny that sexism exists, wherever and whenever they can.

I think having tackled folks who are bigoted on other fronts, they learned well how to use tactics of minimising, denial and blaming as well as diversion. That's what we're seeing from George Galloway, Craig Murray, Julian Assange and all those men (and some women, who believe it's better for them to carve out their own niche within a misogynist system rather than challenging it,) who support their sexist views. These statements of course in turn give validation to all the other men out there who believe they are entitled to control women, including sexually, as their right.

But, it's encouraging to see plenty of women and men refusing to collude with these views, even where their voices aren't as loud, aren't picked up by major media outlets. There's just SO much work yet to be done, but we can't give up.

gettingagrip · 21/08/2012 13:23

Kate Copstick - accused woman she was debating with of being hysterical and gabbling!

A rape apologist of the highest order - if you had said yes once then men have the right to have sex with you for the rest of your life basically !

Girls who are drunk deserve it - all the usual crap - shocking actually. George Galloway just saying what everybody thinks. Horrendous woman! Emailed the programme I was so shocked and disgusted.

gettingagrip · 21/08/2012 13:25

Will look out for iplayer link and post it.

mayorquimby · 21/08/2012 13:36

"How do you prove or disprove that the person accused of rape did or did not believe that consent had been given?"

That's a question of fact for the jury to decide. The rule of thumb being that the more unreasonable a belief is, the less like that it is genuinely held.

MrsBucketxx · 21/08/2012 13:56

i was really shocked at what i heard, it seemed ike a generational thing with the older obes saying yes this is ok and drunk girls deserve it too.

solidgoldbrass · 21/08/2012 14:03

THis is why the Yes Means Yes meme of enthusiastic participation as a minimum standard is so important. If your partner is not actively and happily engaged in whatever sexual activity is happening, unless you have had detailed prior negotiation you need to STOP and check that s/he is OK with it.

Eg, if you are in an ongoing relationship and the pair of you have discussed the fact that you both feel it's sweet and romantic to engage in at least preliminary sexual contact when one of you is asleep or nearly asleep, then that would constitute a sort of ongoing consent. And in fact, people in ongoing happy, healthy relationships often don't have a problem with one or other partner touching them in the middle of the night. But this is because people in healthy relationships, where there is mutual respect, also understand that should the sleeping person grumble or move away from the exploratory hand, the wakeful, lustful one does not pursue it any further.

yellowraincoat · 21/08/2012 14:07

Very good points, sgb .

If there is any doubt at all, then you need to check that your partner wants to continue. You are allowed to change your mind at any point.

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 21/08/2012 14:11

Completely agree SGB. Why would anyone want to be having sexual contact in which they were not 100% sure the other person was happily engaged?

Well, we know why.