Mumsnet in Sunday Times

[Xenia]

I cannot link because of the firewall but saw a reference to mumsnet - article about left wing people who send children to private schools.

one couple they referred to broke up their marriage because they could not agree on state or private schooling.

(When is it right to put family ahead of principle?

www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/focus/article1101910.ece )

Sorry-I was being a bit naughty there! However things don't add up if women are not supposed to have, badly paid ,caring jobs and yet those with highly paid jobs are relying on them.

oh,well she had better make sure they have some medical training along the way.The boys and the girls.

I thought you were being serious exoticfruits!

Perhaps when the rich are lying on their death beds they can lecture the carers on 'bettering themselves' to get jobs with power, influence and money!

I must stop now Xenia,but you do see our point I presume.

I was really-but thought I should have kept the thought to myself! I was a bit hasty with the post message button.

I had a wonderful post on mumsnet the other day about how money improves a death bed... I am earning a crust here and want to go swimming so cannot look it up but being a reasonable expert in deathbeds (sadly both my parents died) I know quite a bit about that side of things, sadly.

How being wealthy means your death is so much better.... Even that is enhanced when women have money power and the happy life which goes with that. Win win all round (as long of course as you have lawfully avoided inheritance tax which is a voluntary tax on the stupid as you pay nothing if you give your money away and survive 7 years).

The real issue with education is that too many parents are not supporting their children. I am often surprised to hear parents side with their children when my parents would never have undermined a teacher. Often, parents who buy an education for their children do so to avoid their child(ren) being lumped into a class with others whose parents are not as interested in their child being educated.

FWIW - I don't agree with Xenia on what determines a successful career. I want DD to be the best at what she does and for her to have her own business. If that means she is a hairdresser or tradesmen then so be it. Regardless of her career she does need to be educated and the standards are not impossible for a normal child to attain if they study and work for it.

when people asked me what I did and I said "im a waitress", and later on "i manage a restaurant" you could see them ing.

but these same people would come into my restaurant, be waited on by me, take my advice on what to order, which wine to have, and have a good night because i was bloody good at my job. it may have been low paid (again, I dont live in london, not everyone has to) but i was still good at it.

I will never be rich, but I am happy. some people equate wealth with happiness, good for them, but I would never dream of sneering at them

Xenia,which year are you going to die?
So which year are you going to give your money away.

Unfortunately,some people die earlier than this,often unexpectedly.I think you have forgotten,at least I hope you have,that there is a poster here that that has happened too.Was that particular poster stupid?

Want, own business is a great aim. I think we are a nation of shopkeepers or were. Two of my grandfather's sisters had a shop in the 1920s until the 29 crash and my grandfather set up his own (first selling horses, then estate agent, auctioneer etc). I have told all 5 of my chidlren I would like them to pick work which ultimately means they could own, not be an employee in whoever small a way that is. Yes you don't get maternity benefits or sick pay but you gain huge independence and freedom. One of the best things I ever did was starting to work for myself in 94.

I have never said only the rich are happy but huge numbers of the poor make themselves feel better by saying either you are rich or you are happy which is nonsense. Happiness is a sate of mind.it is about the balance of chemicals in the brain such as seratonin levels, beta endorphins. Depression is not determined by income level. Obviously people with no purpose in life - dole claimants for life or some of the very rich who never work and sadly housewives tend to have high depression levels. We can stop a lot of that by ensuring we are never housewives, by ensuring our children are not handed things on a plate - an issue I have now with children considering buying properties and how you determine what is fair help but not too generous and taking exercise, getting enough direct sun light and loads of sleep eating healthy foods- all things that keep depression at bay.

I prioritise despite the impression given on here of me, those kinds of issues - loads of sleep, good foods, exercise, sunshine, time sitting doing nothing.

Well, Xenia, of course a lot of rich people are happy but I think what some of us are saying is that there's more to life than being rich.

People have already made very good points about you handing your babies over to another woman, and the fact that in your old age you will probably be cared for by another woman. Both, I imagine, on low wages. Yet you appear to feel contempt for women who do these kinds of jobs. Why? Where would you be without them?

Also try being compassionate.
Try having more understanding.

And above all,try saying sorry.

I see that I have been remiss as a parent-it is too late now to tell mine to aim for a highly paid job to ensure a better death!

Interesting that virtually everyone accepts that in the UK the divide between rich and poor is staggering. That the rich have better access to education, halthcare etc
Most people accept that the poor have difficult lives, often working like dogs for sweet FA. That being poor impacts upon your physical and emotional well being. And yes, being poor means you will in all likelhood die younger.

Yet, when Xenia says that, she is jumped on. Apparently the stats are all wrong .

Oh come off it, wordfactory, that is not all Xenia is saying. She is saying that people who do lower paid jobs are inferior. She is saying that parents who don't earn a lot = bad parents (or rather, more specifically, mothers that don't earn a lot = bad mothers; she seems gentler on the fathers). And she is saying that anyone who is not a high earner is destined to misery.

All of those statements are, and are intended to be, confrontational and offensive. They are not just wrong (which they are), they are deliberately intended to wind up other posters.

She not only deserves the opprobrium, she courts it and relishes it.

We object to her saying that people are stupid for working in lower paid jobs.Do you think that too?

Agree with breadandbutterfly.

Do you feel loyal to what she says because your DH goes to some of her seminars?

bread I agree that it is not right to sy certain jobs are inferior. But posters go much further than that. They start by saying money isn't everyhting (somehting xenia reiterates every time she's on here. Consistently.) but they can't help themselves and just to try to prove her wrong they start to say that being poor is just fine.

Well it's not. Everyhting xenia says about the economoy and poor people wihtin the economy is true.
Pretending that there are lots of happy little poor people out there, enjoying their vegie diets and living til a hundred is delusional. And patronising.

I've been very poor and believe me, it's no fun. There are no choices. There is no freedom. There is just work. Or desperately trying to get work. And stress.

Similarly, it is utter stupidity to say that you can't be happy and fullfilled and rich. But that is the myth peddled to the poor. And especially to poor women. It keeps them in their place.

And I'm so not about keeping poor women in their place.

Why on earth are we telling women that they shouldn't mind low paid work because it's important? Why are we telling them that low paid work is great because it's fullfilling? Why are we trying to give it so much value? Is it because we want, nay we need them to keep on bloody doing it?

Yet every time someone dares to say that women can have highly paid work, MN gets its collective knickers in a twist.
Every time someone points out that if a woman wants an eductaion, a decent home, children, childcare, a decent retirement, and one of the best ways to get that is to get a highly paid job, feathers are ruffled...people don't like it....and yet it seems bleeding obvious to me.

million I'm assuming you're joking about DH's seminars .

Otherwise you're making a tit of yourself suggesting it.

Do I think low paid workers are stupid? No I don't. Do I want my DC to do a job like that? No I don't.
Would I proud if one of my DC wanted to devote their lives to a self sacrificing profession? Yes I would. But happy? No. I don't want them to have a hard life.

I have never said anyone is inferior. People who feel pretty useless and know they could earn more might be made to feel useless when told if you earn more all these advantages are yours but you cannot extrapolate from that that I think people are inferior. Indeed on here or another thread I was saying there is a moral case to be made that a 15 year old girl who leaves school to have a baby on benefits is leading as moral and good a life the Oxbridge graduate.

Bsaically people , men and women, keep women down by saying - all hail the hallowed low paid care home worker - you will get your reward in heaven rather than saying - hey you, reach for the sky, run BP or own it - you can do anything you set your mind to. It suits those with power and particularly men if women have an internal moral desire not to earn and to stay at home and serve men or work in low paid service work. I would like more mumsnetters to chuck the mop at their other half and say I am off to earn a fortune mate so you can clean your own kitchen tonight.

wordfactory,your DH attends some of Xenias lectures or whatever they are called,does he not?

I was brought to to believe that public service is a privilege - my family have always been solid, working class, citizens. Great grandfather was mayor of Southwark, parents in public sector.

I work for the emergency services and it gives me done satisfaction to be able to speak to someone in distress and call an ambulance or refer them to a dr or a nurse or call out a dr. Many calls are distressing and a shift goes by in a blur sometimes but it does give me satisfaction.

When I read how people like Xenia see the world ( as winners/ losers, rich/poor, poor to blame for their poverty, rich deserving of their wealth) I feel worried for our country. That common decency, ( not some sort of martyred nobility) seems of so little value to these people.

But you know when someone like Xenia has an emergency it will be women and men on relatively low pay, on a 12 hour shift, who will be there for her, offer no judgement and do their best for her, because they are decent people.

In stead of saying "All hail the hallowed low paid care home worker", why isn't our society paying these people a decent wage. Someone HAS to do these jobs to enable women to " reach for the sky and run BP" - and what we appear to have is one set of women exploiting another to make this happen