Intensive mothers

[Xenia]

It seems pretty clear children benefit a lot if their mother has a good career and here is another piece of evidence of the damage housewives do to children:-

"Stay at home mothers are more likely to be unhappy than those who go out to work, according to new research.
Women who believe in "intensive parenting" are at risk of a range of mental illnesses including depression.

They think women are better parents than men, that mothering should be child centred and that children should be considered sacred and fulfilling.

This may put them in danger of suffering the 'parenthood paradox' where their ideology increases feelings of stress and guilt.

Psychologist Kathryn Rizzo, whose findings are published online in Springer's Journal of Child and Family Studies, said: "If intensive mothering is related to so many negative mental health outcomes, why do women do it?

"They may think that it makes them better mothers, so they are willing to sacrifice their own mental health to enhance their children's cognitive, social and emotional outcomes."
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She said parenting is a big task and requires a variety of skills and expertise. Many women rate the challenge as one of the most fulfilling experiences in life.

But some previous research has suggested it may be detrimental to mental health, with women reporting taking care of their children as more stressful than being at work.

So her team at the University of Mary Washington, Virginia, looked at whether intensive parenting in particular was linked to increased levels of stress, depression and lower life satisfaction among 181 mothers of children under five.

Using an online questionnaire, they found out to what extent the participants endorsed intensive parenting beliefs by measuring their responses to a series of statements.

These included "mothers are the most necessary and capable parent", "parents' happiness is derived primarily from their children" and "parents should always provide their children with stimulating activities that aid in their development".

Others were "parenting is more difficult than working" and "a parent should always sacrifice their needs for the needs of the child".

Overall, the women were satisfied with their lives but had moderate levels of stress and depression.

Almost one in four had symptoms of depression and these negative mental health outcomes were accounted for by their endorsement of intensive parenting attitudes.

When the level of family support was taken into account, those mothers who believed women are the essential parent were less satisfied with their lives. Those who believed that parenting is challenging were more stressed and depressed.

The researchers said overall, the women were satisfied with their lives but had moderate levels of stress and depression.

They added: "In reality, intensive parenting may have the opposite effect on children from what parents intend."

Earlier this year a study of more than 60,000 US mothers found 41 percent of those not in work experienced worry compared to 34 per cent of those employed.

And 28 per cent suffered depression, eleven per cent more than the others. Psychlogists fear the phenomenon is linked with feelings of isolation and a lack of fulfillment. "

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9381449/Stay-at-home-mothers-more-unhappy-than-those-who-work.html

It is only on MN that you see these sorts of comments none of my RL friends ever talk like this as we all accept the differences and tbh we all get something from our differences. Some of the more home focussed love to entertain and look after us all and some of those in high profile careers share some of the fruits of that. Eg my best friend is a producer and we get to go to lots of gigs and parties etc whereas another has a farm based life in Devon and we all go there at times to eat cake and lie on the sofa. I can't think of anything worse than a high octane career where I felti was chasing my tail and needing help to keep my home a calm chilled place so I have organised myself not to have to.

exotic you are right.

There are far too few men in child care and domestic roles. Partly because these are seen as women's work.

It is almost impossible to get domestic helpers who are men. No one applies!!!

I have both not sure where you get the idea I think women or men should step out of anything I am for choice. Who are my contingent? I am not a SAHM only My ds is now 18 I am talking about until he was about 12 dp and I were happier with one of us always available to do the home stuff and it has not affected us financially or work wise at all.

It would be interesting to know how many women, faced with 2 equal candidates but one male and one female, would choose the male for a nanny. My guess is that he wouldn't even get to the interview stage. If child care isn't to be seen as 'women's work' I think that career women ought to try and rectify it by employing men in their home. It isn't just a question of women getting into traditionally male roles, it is just as much about getting men into traditional female roles.

The wages in these jobs are crap no matter what sex you are which is why people in well paid jobs can afford them! I have never yet heard anyone say I am going to,work less in order that I can do my own cleaning and child are rather than perpetuate the low paid home help scenario.

Child care!

noddy by contingent, i mean the contingent of posters who get very upset by xenia and make personal attacks. You seem to want rid of the one voice that says you can have a successful career and a thriving family.

Why is that? Is she that threatening?

From what you and exotic have said, you are similar. You don't want the ambitious career. Home and hearth make you happy. And it is lovely that you are able to get what you want.

But you must surely see that other people do want the well paid career. They do want to be involved in public life. Yet you seem to be saying thay they should not do so once they have DC.

Is that the same for men and women? Are you saying only the childless should take jobs in these areas?

I have both but don,t assume others do! Xenia is not the only successful woman on here you know who says both are possible

exotic it is becoming more normal to see male nannies (mannies) in London just as it is becoming normal to see SAHDs.

It will take time though.

Where is the personal attack?

Before the first world war everyone could get servants - then the servants got wider horizons and better options. I would like a world where all cleaners got better options and everyone had to get on and do their own.

You can get highly involved in public life without being paid wordfactory.

Glad to hear it about male nannies - it will take time but will be great if it becomes the norm- that is the real way forward.

mathanxiety/gatheringlilac - you said what I immediately thought way back up the thread.

The research is very weak because it ascribes all these observations to being a mother or in terms of motherhood. By including fathers in the study they could have and identified what factors are due to the stresses of parenthood and what factors are particular to being a woman or a man.

If they had included childless men and women they could have also found whether there there are two additional combination factors of being a parent and a woman (ie mother) and being a parent and a man (ie father).

The biggest revelation in this research is not the results as printed but the basic unquestioned assumption underlying it all is that despite it being 2012 (ie not 1952) we still talk about parenting and childcare as a predominantly female task.

If I were peer reviewing this work I would not accept it for academic publication without addressing these issues. Maybe the research did include fathers but the newspaper didnt include those results.

If you need to employ a low paid worker though to avoid a low paid job yourself then it doesn,t matter what their sex is they are being exploited. Being a nanny or cleaner is not a pathway to any great career that will make a long term difference to how women are perceived in the workplace.

You think employing someone is exploitation?

No I didn't say that but where does this sort of work lead. It is not going to,progress and provide the sort of security the employer affords. It is the type of work the op sees as non ambitious etc yet it is needed. Why is that so hard to grasp. Anyway am off now and hiding thread see ya x

The chips on shoulders regarding cleaning are very interesting. We need more jobs at the moment. More people using cleaners is good for the econmomy.

and why should I have to do my own cleaning?

mathanxiety yes! Absolutely agree that 'Being a woman of childbearing age is detrimental to your [mental] health'

I read about the Mommy Wars in 'Backwards in High Heels' [fab book] before starting a family and thought it was a cliche. Sadly not. It's like being in the school playground sometimes. Women are amazing - fortunately for men, we've not worked out how to be on each other's side yet.

MoreBeta "the basic unquestioned assumption underlying it all is that despite it being 2012 (ie not 1952) we still talk about parenting and childcare as a predominantly female task"

I haven't read the whole thing but I thought the whole point was that the subjects of the study (the 'intensive mothers') held this assumption themselves, and this contributed in some cases to their unhappiness.

wordfactory I agree with your posts and thank you for challenging the reference to another poster's children. Whether it affects xenia or not I don't know but it does affect me as a WOHM who hasn't yet learned to shake off the guilt, and contributes to the general background theme of SAHM-dom as the only moral choice.

On Woman's Hour right now they are asking teenage boys for their views on

On Women's Hour right now they are talking to 18 year old boys about their views on this.

They all think women should stay at home because that's what has always happened. One just said- Women should do the cleaning because what else are they going to do between school drop off and pick up.

Ye gods.

Certainly one of the main things I like to say is "Ditch the Guilt". The guilt is made by the many newspaper articles against working mothers (but never of course working fathers as they have a penis and are Gods and can do no wrong according to the media).

Ah , well there we are. Every mumsnetter who is at home and not work in a sexist relationship where men earn and women serve is contributng to the views of those 18 year old boys on women's hour. When there are many househusbands as housewives progress will be made.

When I made that point on another thread a few weeks ago I was roundly attacked and told by one poster (amusingly, one who frequently makes what I consider to be quite rude posts) that it was the most offensive thing they had ever read on MN. Ho hum.

My current amusement is seeing - on multiple threads - people claiming that they could easily be high flyers if they wanted to. And that people with careers such as mine have been lucky more than anything else.

I suspect most women are very fortunate not to have the sort of 'luck' that has featured in my life, but there you go.

I was truly shocked by their conversation. It reminded me of the bit in Adrian Mole where he tells Pandora that he wouldn't mind if she had a little job in a cake shop or something after they had children.

If I recall correctly Pandora flounced out and told him she wanted to be president of the UN.

(Wonder where she would in fact be today)

" I would be very interested in hearing from her children I ammsurevtheynwould have a different story to tell ."

in what way would it be interesting and what kind of difference do you think would be in their stories?

Just interested if you have the time to answer.