Intensive mothers

[Xenia]

It seems pretty clear children benefit a lot if their mother has a good career and here is another piece of evidence of the damage housewives do to children:-

"Stay at home mothers are more likely to be unhappy than those who go out to work, according to new research.
Women who believe in "intensive parenting" are at risk of a range of mental illnesses including depression.

They think women are better parents than men, that mothering should be child centred and that children should be considered sacred and fulfilling.

This may put them in danger of suffering the 'parenthood paradox' where their ideology increases feelings of stress and guilt.

Psychologist Kathryn Rizzo, whose findings are published online in Springer's Journal of Child and Family Studies, said: "If intensive mothering is related to so many negative mental health outcomes, why do women do it?

"They may think that it makes them better mothers, so they are willing to sacrifice their own mental health to enhance their children's cognitive, social and emotional outcomes."
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She said parenting is a big task and requires a variety of skills and expertise. Many women rate the challenge as one of the most fulfilling experiences in life.

But some previous research has suggested it may be detrimental to mental health, with women reporting taking care of their children as more stressful than being at work.

So her team at the University of Mary Washington, Virginia, looked at whether intensive parenting in particular was linked to increased levels of stress, depression and lower life satisfaction among 181 mothers of children under five.

Using an online questionnaire, they found out to what extent the participants endorsed intensive parenting beliefs by measuring their responses to a series of statements.

These included "mothers are the most necessary and capable parent", "parents' happiness is derived primarily from their children" and "parents should always provide their children with stimulating activities that aid in their development".

Others were "parenting is more difficult than working" and "a parent should always sacrifice their needs for the needs of the child".

Overall, the women were satisfied with their lives but had moderate levels of stress and depression.

Almost one in four had symptoms of depression and these negative mental health outcomes were accounted for by their endorsement of intensive parenting attitudes.

When the level of family support was taken into account, those mothers who believed women are the essential parent were less satisfied with their lives. Those who believed that parenting is challenging were more stressed and depressed.

The researchers said overall, the women were satisfied with their lives but had moderate levels of stress and depression.

They added: "In reality, intensive parenting may have the opposite effect on children from what parents intend."

Earlier this year a study of more than 60,000 US mothers found 41 percent of those not in work experienced worry compared to 34 per cent of those employed.

And 28 per cent suffered depression, eleven per cent more than the others. Psychlogists fear the phenomenon is linked with feelings of isolation and a lack of fulfillment. "

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9381449/Stay-at-home-mothers-more-unhappy-than-those-who-work.html

It is up to the individual.

Thanks YoYo. Still seems very implausible to me.

Yes, xenia is a lawyer. Very well thought of in her field.

DH has been to some of her talks and says she knows her stuff. And he aint easily impressed ...

Wiki definition of trolling
'In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] '

We are being provoked methinks!

Ps at XENIA referring to reading Tatler

Isn't this just spin on the recent study which was actually based on working mothers....

Not everyone cares about money and status Xenia. You love your job, good for you. I love time with my DC. Push come to shove I would rather regret losing time in a job or career than time with my DC. I went through hell to have my DC including 2 very late losses and have re evaluated the important things in my life, time with family. Others may pursue a career. That is the point, everybody is different. Happy SAHPs are glad WOHMs are happy. Only WOHMs who doubt their choice (subconsciously maybe) are obsessed with getting all mums to do their choice, what sort of freedom or life is that? I don't think all mums should stay home. I think each to their own! PS I know just as many overprotective spoling parents who are WOHMs!

"Why is being a mum 'sacrificing your life'? You don't have to have children these days. Being a mum has been the best part and far more satisfying than anything else. I would have been very upset if DH was fighting me for being the main carer"

being a mum with a job outside of the home doesn't make you any less a mum! Just like being a dad who works outside of the home doesn't make a man any less of a dad.

What would you feel if your DH said he wanted you both to work part time so you both get equal time at home with the kids? Would you really feel less of a mum?

I know for sure, kuros, because someone on here told me- I don't think they should have told me so I have no intention of passing it on. Since she gives many personal details and is high profile in RL, I know it to be correct. I am full of admiration for her - her only mistake is thinking that we all want the same, or should want the same. I would hate her life and she would hate mine. Thankfully we are all different.
I didn't say that you were less of a mum by working outside the home - merely that it wasn't sacrificing my life by staying at home with them- it was the best part. Like jellybeans I loved my time at home and it came before the career. Helped by the fact that I was older. If you do have children in your early 20s you need to carry on (I was 22 before I started in my career) or you will find it difficult to get anywhere. It is very different when you are 37yrs - Xenia will insist on talking as if we are all silly airheads, being subservient to a man, with no experience and no life - rather than a mature woman, who has got where she wanted, is confident, has lots of interests, is out and about in the community, is not living through her DCs (or her DH) and has assets of her own. It also makes a huge difference if you marry a man who has lived alone for 20years and can turn his hand to anything.

Had DH wanted us to both work part time, I wouldn't have felt less of a mum(how does a woman feel less of a mum?) but I wouldn't have liked it as much and would have thought it particularly silly since he would go up the walls at home and he can earn far more full time than us both part time.
Of course women who 'would go up the wall ' at home should go out to work if it suits them. What Xenia should realise is that we are all different, one size doesn't suit all, and there is nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't want to stay at home for life -I would hate to home educate for example- that is not to say that others shouldn't.

ef, I wouldn't mind if we are all different (and of course we are) but time after time after tme it is women at home and from a feminist and political perspective that is what keeps women down. If as many men as women couldn't wait to stop work and be at home with the toddlers and were doing so then the issue would not be the same. I would have no problem with that.

(Thanks wf's husband, that's kind.
I don't want to be identified on line so let's have me as an unemployed 20 stone ex call centre man from Scunthorpe).

As WF said this the key. This is all I am saying ( as well as how does anyone with half a brain want to be home without any domestic help looking after 3 children under 5 when most of that task is cleaning up and pretty dull and hard work):

"noddy it might be a start if the split was between men and women equally.

As it stands, women do the vast majority of low paid work and men do the vast majorityof well paid work. It cannot be that men are worth more than women or that men are somehow more capable of doing those highly paid roles.

So the message that more women should at least try for those highly paid roles is a fair one no?"

It is the gender politics issue that many women work on. As long as women saddle themselves with the low paid dull stuff women will never get anywhere.

Now that is a funny thought - Xenia - from now on I will be seeing you differently!(grin)
The problem is, Xenia, the the type of woman who is upsetting you by 'letting women down' isn't going to be any different if they get into the workplace.

Of course women should try for the highly paid jobs if they want them.
Pay and status comes way down my list in a career. For example if I was interested in a medical career I wouldn't want to be a surgeon, the ones that would attract me are midwife or district nurse out in the community.

What about the low paid person doing the domestic help where would you be without them? I have never done a low paid dull job in my life. Dp and I both wanted to look after ds as we chose dp never did any over time and always worked locally as he wanted to be here for school runs etc.we are together and have a great life your argument is senseless unless you acknowledge that you need the low paid drudge workers as you see thm to enable you to have the life you have.

This is the issue I find key.

Of course all women don't want to be in the boardroom, any more than all men do. However, women should be equally represented in that arena. Just as they should be equally represented in politics, the media, the judiciary etc.

Society really might be very very different if that were the case.

Unfortunately, women are hugely under represented in these areas. One reason seems to be a general acceptance (especially in the media) that women can't and shouldn't contunue once they have DC.

So it's A Good Thing to have some voices saying that it is possible to be a Mother and work successfully in these industries.

It's also worth saying that since most women have to work, might they not at least be paid very well for it? Or some of them at least?

noddy you are spectacularly missing the point!!!!

Yes, there will always be low paid workers, but why are so many of them women?

Are we somehow inferior? Do we value ourselves and our services less than men?

No one is denying that but many women want to choose. I would be very interested in hearing from her children I ammsurevtheynwould have a different story to tell .

Making snide commnets about a poster's family and children is dispicable! And so utterly predictable and unimaginative!!

Why do so many posters stoop to these levels?

Are you trying to hound xenia off the boards? Would you prefer it if everyone on MN agreed that working mothers are dreadful and unhappy?

Why not set up your own forum? Perhaps Jools Oliver could be patron.

I don't think it will be a problem in future- girls appear to be overtaking boys in most areas.

But without these low paid workers many people wouldn,t be able to pursue career men or women. I do have a career but I was able to do it and be home and clean my own bloody house. Why perpetuate the woman in low paid menial job by employing one? Surely you should educate your staff to expect better. I am not spectacularly missing the point at all. I know men and women who have tailored their work to fit in with family life and they prefer to work less or adapt to a different work profile once they have a family because they feel they want to look after their children themselves without employing an army of low paid workers to do it for them. I know lots of people who manage this. I am one. I am not married have my own money and loved being at home as did dp.I wold be interested to know what jobs Xenia,s fan club do and how financially independent they are

I am not attacking I am saying I would be interested in their take. Same as I would be interested in why you lick Xenia,s arse on all these threads. Are you in the boardroom too

I think that noddy does have a point. Do high flying women employ male nannies and male cleaners?

Could you show me the snide comment? I can't see it.

I do get depressed if I am at home and feel so much better when I am back at uni. But saying that, I really admire women who can be sahms, so would never criticise their choices. I used to feel guilty about the fact it wasn't enough for me to be at home and thought I was a failure as a woman/mother. Now I've realised that my skills lie elsewhere and me and my family are happier when I am out studying. Surely the point should be that women shouldn't feel pressured to be who they're not by external pressures? If I hadn't been on my way to getting my career sorted when I fell pregnant I may have felt pressure to be a sahm and I would have been one of the depressed ones because it wasn't for me. Interestingly, I don't think my dp felt pressure to be a sahd, even though when I graduate I will go straight into a better paid job than him.

Op is obviously feeling the social pressure/disapproval of her being a wahm, and feels the need to justify her choices by flipping that guilt/pressure onto sahm. What a shame. Why can't women be nice to eachother?

noddy I do not lick xenia's arse. Nor do I work in the boardroom. Yes I make a lot of money. No I don't use a nanny.

I simply feel that it is hugley important that there are some (one!) positive voice about having a successful career and motherhood.

It sems to bother you are your contingent very much. Why is that? Do you really feel that all women should step out of those sort of jobs once they have DC? Do you really feel they should be the preserve of men only?

Part of the reason that you don't have men in childcare is that they are viewed with suspicion - a lot of it from women. One way to make for equality and to stop seeing child care as 'women's work' would be to actively employ men in the role. The same with cleaning. I'm sure there are male students who would be happy to earn money as cleaners if there are a lack of them.
Personally I can't see why anyone, male or female, would want to be a cleaner and would like a world where everyone had to do their own- whoever they happened to be - but that is only a pipedream!