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Learning to recite poetry from the age of 5

191 replies

Morebiscuitsplease · 10/06/2012 21:40

While I have no problem with the emphasis on grammar and spelling. What does making a child learn poetry by heart really really teach a five year old? Surely appreciation and comprehension are more important. I feel that there are more useful things teachers could be doing with their time. Is this another of Gove's throwbacks to the fifties? if so, can someone please remind him we are educating our children for the 21 st century.

OP posts:
claig · 13/06/2012 13:26

How many children who got an A* could work that out?

SardineQueen · 13/06/2012 13:29

All of them I should think Claig given that it's a really fucking basic question.

You compare percentages to quadratic equations. Quadratic equations are A-Level (or were in my day), percentages are learnt by tiny children pretending to divide up pizzas. The fact that you clearly think it is really hard is just a perfect example of the whole bloody thing.

claig · 13/06/2012 13:33

Universities are doing remedial classes in maths because some of the A* students' maths isn't up to it. Some of this has been part of the New Labour sham. And people blame teachgers, and you say they are doing "a shoddy job" of teaching maths. They teach to the test, they meet their targets, they teach the syllabus that is set. It's not their fault, it's the fault of those who appoint the blame.

SardineQueen · 13/06/2012 13:35

So where does 2.1% of 400 come into all this?

You know that really hard question that you wouldn't expect primary school teachers to be able to answer, or children getting the top mark in maths at GCSE/A Level?

"And people blame teachgers, and you say they are doing "a shoddy job" of teaching maths."

Who has said this? you are making it up.

claig · 13/06/2012 13:37

You said

'most people (sadly) don't like or understand maths, because of the shoddy approach to it in our schools which has been there for decades.'

SardineQueen · 13/06/2012 13:38

I'm going to hide this.
I know you will just go on and on and on about new labour and the daily mail and the green conspiracy.

Fact is that the best way for children to learn maths is to be taught it properly by someone who is passionate about it. Same as any other subject.

Being taught the tables by rote by someone who does not care for the subject is not going to help anything.

And on that note I really am off Smile

SardineQueen · 13/06/2012 13:40

xposts

yes I said that

which is a completely different thing to what you keep quoting.

So please stop misquoting me.

Bye now.

claig · 13/06/2012 13:40

Just because you understand what 2.1% of 400 is or 17.6% of 700 is or 1/2 of 3/4 is, doesn't mean that everyone does. Some reception level teachers don't need it, and I bet there are some New Labour ministers, who along with the spelling mistakes they make, also couldn't do these simple sums without a calculator.

claig · 13/06/2012 13:41

Bye now

claig · 13/06/2012 13:43

'Being taught the tables by rote by someone who does not care for the subject is not going to help anything.'

There are no teachers who don't care about the subject. Whatever gave you that impression?

claig · 13/06/2012 13:45

'Fact is that the best way for children to learn maths is to be taught it properly by someone who is passionate about it.'

Oh, you mean someone like you, not the teachers who do it everyday in the classroom.

TheHouseOnTheCorner · 13/06/2012 13:46

My Dd was reciting poetry from the age of 4 due to going to prep school. It did her confidence the world of good.

claig · 13/06/2012 13:47

I'm going to hide this.
I know you will just go on and on and on about new labour and the daily mail and the green conspiracy.'

It's a shame you're hiding, you might learn something.

bestemor · 15/06/2012 12:28

I'm amazed to hear that "quadratic equations are A-level"; we were doing them at 11-12 years old and I loved them! (But then, that was in the 1960s !)

Cullen has "never met a child who liked learning by rote"? My friend and I used to sit in the back row during boring French lessons, learning long poems by heart, just for fun!. (I love French now, by the way)

I just wish these career politicians would stop thinking they know more about teaching than the teachers. It seems as if the education system is constantly being blown around by the whim of the latest Education Secretary.

ProbablyJustGas · 15/06/2012 14:16

I had to recite Chaucer. But that was at age 16, not 6, and it was to make sure we could understand the prologue of the Canterbury Tales, which we were working through in the original Middle English. Reciting helped us get a grip on text that looked really odd and would have been inaccessible to most of us. Some of my class never worked with Chaucer again, but I went on to do an English degree, so was grateful for the exposure. None of us died doing the exercise or were even that bad at it. It took maybe a few minutes of public speaking to get through.

From what I've observed, the 6 year-old in my house actually needs a two-pronged approach to learn anything. She needs to know how to figure things out in the first place, because everything from reading a sentence to adding 10+2 is a challenge for her. But she also needs to just remember things, so that she isn't stuck forever on counting her way through 10+2. The more she practices remembering things (song lyrics, her lines for a play, card games, number bonds), the more capable her memory gets and the more confident she grows, thus more willing to try figuring out something new.

That said, IMO, there's an awful lot of top-down pressure all over the UK to make the school curriculum "just so", and I think this actually risks creating gaps in knowledge. Which, I think, is what a lot of this dialogue from Gove is based on in the first place, right? www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9322525/School-leavers-unable-to-function-in-the-workplace.html

To me, there's a difference between "you ought to know this" and "you ought to know this by now". If you rely too much on tests, levels and exams as proof of the latter, I think there's a good chance that children could be rushed through the curriculum before they've really mastered the material.

Case in point - last year, same kiddo was bringing home schoolwork that involved adding money together, e.g. 50p + 20p + 5p. She got through this assignment with me and DH successfully, and we assumed that this meant she was learning how to add money at school. Didn't understand at all why money confused DSD over the summer break, because surely she'd gone over working with money at school. The following October, her new teacher informed us that DSD actually needed to go back to learning her number bonds 0-10, because she actually didn't know them. This despite performing adequately for more advanced homework assignments during P1. I think if DSD's teacher had been more pressured to get DSD performing to a certain standard by age 6.5, that DSD might have performed adequately on several more assignments, but would not necessarily have been mastering much.

GrimmaTheNome · 15/06/2012 16:46

Fact is that the best way for children to learn maths is to be taught it properly by someone who is passionate about it. Same as any other subject.

My DD was lucky that in yr6 they had specialist teachers for some subjects including maths (they were the normal class teachers just swapped about a bit for some lessons). Some primary teachers simply aren't as confident at maths as others - she was taught maths by someone who was a mathematician - of course that helped. The extra benefit was that there was absolutely no room for the old 'boys are better at maths than girls' rubbish which some still suffer from!

PJB - quite right about 'two pronged'. Understanding a subject is fundamentally important, but there is always stuff you just have to learn. You will memorise more easily if you understand, and understanding the next step is easier if you can remember the basics - its symbiotic. Smile

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