Learning to recite poetry from the age of 5

[Morebiscuitsplease]

While I have no problem with the emphasis on grammar and spelling. What does making a child learn poetry by heart really really teach a five year old? Surely appreciation and comprehension are more important. I feel that there are more useful things teachers could be doing with their time. Is this another of Gove's throwbacks to the fifties? if so, can someone please remind him we are educating our children for the 21 st century.

sardine I am dyslexic. I have had a very successful life while finding spelling very difficult. Does that mean DC shouldn't learn to spell ?

But this all ignores children who do not have the aptitude / interest in that type of subject.

What of the children who are good at understanding & applying, and poor at memorising and regurgitating? They are not going to be well served by this change of focus.

wordfactory you are being silly now.

If you have no core knowledge it doesn't matter how good you are at understanding and applying. We all need a base framework of knowledge to build on.

I think it is you who are seeing this through, and only thorugh, the prism of your own strengths and weaknesses.

Sorry, that was to sardine.

The times table is a great example.
Some children will easily be able to learn by rote.
Some children will easily be able to understand how it works.
Teaching them by rote (and he wants to teach lots of addition and subtraction by rote as well) is time consuming and does not mean that the children actually understand what they are saying, they are just parroting.
So the rote children have not learnt any actual maths.
The ones who are poor at learning by rote might feel that they are no good at maths.
If you understand something you can apply their knowledge to work out all sorts of different sums. You will just take a little longer to do it.
The second is more valuable surely?

It's not just me, the headmaster interviewed yesterday was concerned as well and I have read that other people are too.

Learning number facts for easy recall is not maths understanding and no-one is claiming that it is. But it is useful (vital, even), in any kind of proper adult life or job, to be able to do quick arithmetic.

wordfactory yes of course I am looking at it from my own strengths and weaknesses and experiences. And I worry about the children who have an aptitude for understanding and application (maths/science bent) but are terrible at memorising, how this new idea is going to affect their confidence in general and specifically their enjoyment of the subjects they are naturally inclined to.

The vast majority of DC will be best served by both the understanding of what multiplication means and being able to call up their tables at will.

It is not one or the other. Why would it be?

And for the very few DC for whom rote learning is hard...sorry but that is not enough to exclude it from curriculum. We all find certain things hard. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

A curiculum must include those things that will be most beneficial to most children. And learning poetry will benefit most children.

In much the same way, out door sports benefits most children , so it should not be curtailed becuase it makes a tiny minority feel bad.

Of course, we all worry about our own DC when somehting at school does not play to their strengths. But that is not to say they shouldn't be included. It is just our bear mamma instincts coming out .

Some bits of life learning are enjoyable and some are boring and repetitive. It's the same for everyone and it's best to get to grips with the concept early on

The better your overall language skills, the easier in general it is to learn by rote.

sardine we need to bring up robust DC who will not crumple at the thought of doing somehting they are not good at or don't enjoy. That is part of our resonsibilty as parents no?

Come on, the curiculum can't be designed around what one specific group enjoys. It is what will prove beneficial for most pupils.

See if the curiculum were designed around the strengths of my DD everyone would spend their time doing drama and singing and reading poetry. They would learn multiple languages and spend ours in the rain running cross countries.

Maths and science...not so much.

And not only that, it will exercise the memory and strengthen it for all children, just as physical exercise strengthens the body.

In the modern world every adult needs a base of core skills in language and maths. There is no way that adults can function independently in society without them.

I suppose I don't like or trust gove and when he says he wants children standing up in class reciting poetry from age 5, learning times tables by rote, learning actual sums by rote, it makes me nervous. It all sounds rather victorian.

Rote learning takes a long time - especially with children who are still getting to grips with reading skills and so cannot read the things they are trying to learn IYSWIM.

The emphasis that Gove is heading towards (when you read the brief thingy) concentrates on learning by rote across the 3 subject areas mentioned - and very little mention of anything else.

Of course a different range of activities needs to included in the curriculum, and a range of teaching and learning methods, so that all types of child are served. That is what happens at the moment, I think? Certainly both DDs (at school and preschool) learn things like nursery rhymes, songs, all sorts. The focus of this release, though, seems to take it much further in a single direction.

But kids are born with diff memory abilities.One of my twins has a photographic memory,he's bright too but his twin whilst also bright isn't as hot on the memory thing. Now one supposes he'll plod away in literacy lessons learning poems by heart whilst his twin will get to be stretched in other areas.To be frank I'd rather both spent more time on other things.

I have a crap memory.I was taught to learn timetables,French verbs etc off by heart and it had zero impact on my memory.

Also I'm quite impressed with how my dc are learning their tables already. They're 8 and one knows the lot the other(the one with the crap memory) only has 12s to go. They've only had them sent home a few weeks ago and all I've done is to test them written down 3X a week. I've done no reciting at home and nor have school as far as I know. They must have done masses on multiplication skills as both dc just seem to know them.

Personally I think knowing how to multiply is more important not reciting.

Rockpool - the whole point about basic (primary) education is that everyone needs it, whatever your innate talents/abilities/skills. If it's not your thing, you just have to work harder!

My boys are expected to know 40 in 5 minutes muddled up.

But I don't think reciting is a skill anybody needs.I did it at school and it's had no benefit in anything-I'm still shy!Also I'd say my dc are far further on at maths than I was at that age,I had a more limited grip of basic skills.They seem to know far more why.I just did because what I was expected to without questioning which can lead to problems further up as it gets tougher say in O and A level.

My father was a v skilled mathematician and I rem him getting frustrated with the way I was taught in our lovely home coaching lessons.

Memorising stuff is a skill everyone needs, though. Speaking to others clearly and distinctly is a skill everyone needs.

We live in a country where learning and reciting poems starts from the first class. The dc dont start school till they are 6 or 7 but while we were helping ds1 (7) to learn a difficult 3 verse poem ds2 (5) was happily saying it at the same time and by the time ds1 had got it then so had ds2.

I think being able to memorising texts is vital towards learning for exams & there is no reason young dc cant start off with simple poems. As others have said its no different to learning nursery rhymes.

What exams do you need to memorise text for just out of interest?During my Eng lit exams(A level and degree) which included poetryI'm sure I took the books in with me. However I have a crap memory so could be wrong.

Humphry the vast maj of kids do speak clearly,those that don't surely need SALT.
My dd had a slight stammer and the last thing she would have needed at 5 was being put on the spot to recite poetry.In fact her SALT said to avoid any situation where she was put on the spot or made to feel self conscious as it can make a speech problem worse.

I fail to see how any teacher will have time to do 1 to 1 SALT,they barely have time to hear them read.