Learning to recite poetry from the age of 5

[Morebiscuitsplease]

While I have no problem with the emphasis on grammar and spelling. What does making a child learn poetry by heart really really teach a five year old? Surely appreciation and comprehension are more important. I feel that there are more useful things teachers could be doing with their time. Is this another of Gove's throwbacks to the fifties? if so, can someone please remind him we are educating our children for the 21 st century.

Rockpool how do you know that reciting poetry with your class did not help you in life? Were you observing your own child development with an independant eye as you grew up?

Learnig how to speak in public, in a group where no-one is being singled out - is a great way for children to find thier voices, gain confidence in thier ability to speak out in public, whihc is a skill we all need through our school careers and beyond. There is no way reciting poetry is the be all and end all of everything, but it is encouraging skills in children that will develop over time into helping them to become confident adults, who are able and confident to speak in public and are able to utilise strategies to memorise information, learning the rhyme and meter of language through spoken poetry or prose can also help with learning new languages as you brain's development is at a vital early stage where this kind of seed can be set. Learning about and becoming interested in spoken language at an early age can help children's development hugely. It is not just about performing or about learning what some may consider useless poetry. One of the reasons we teach toddlers nursery rhymes is to help with their linguistic development. There are many techniques teachers utilise in the classroom that will probably not be used in that exact incarnation in future adult life - but which are huge aids in learning and in stimulating and developing our brain's synapses.

We had to learn large quotes for English - Macbeth was the text for my English exam. You had to answer the questions but use large quotes to support your answers.

But lots of subject exams involve learning facts and surely learning and reciting age appropriate text from a young age isnt the worst habit to get into?

Science A-levels I remembered needed loads of memorizing. Sure, you had to understand the concepts but if you didn't remember the zillions of scientific terms (e.g. all the bits of cells, names of different chemical compounds) there's no way you'd pass.

At work, I work to the EYFS - I find it's so much easier to do obs and stuff the more you have memorised. (e.g. Oh Timmy went and got himself a tissue, that's the 'self care' bit of PSED)

Slightly tangentially, my nanna's short term memory is completely awful but she can still merrily recite the poems and prayers she learned in primary school 75 odd years ago.

I'd rather they were learning about more about how and why the poem was written.

Teachers only have so many hours in a day.I'd love to know where the hours are going to come from it will take to support the kids who find it tricky which will cover all abilities.Learning nursery rhymes is different and easier as kids spend a lot of time singing nursery rhymes in pre-school which are often short,not complex and heard in many other places.

Learning a poem off by heart will take time.Some like my son will do it immediately as he's been blessed with a photographic memory,for others it will take ages going over and over it thus killing any enjoyment of the poem which they may have had amazing understanding off in the first place.

Lafata which kind of makes my point.Reciting poems she may have been bullied into doing years ago hasn't helped her memory at all.

Actually we had to learn The Highwayman.Can't rem any of it and memory is still crap.

learning stuff by heart improves memory function. Do you think that learning a poem by heart PRECLUDES learning about who wrote it, or what it is about? I think the opposite is true.

If a child has difficulty speaking in public then any teacher will be sensitive enough to deal with this appropriately.

Lots of children have difficulty speaking clearly and with appropriate intonation.

Don't guided reading sessions help with that?

Guided reading is reading aloud from a book, there is no memorisation involved, nor is the student likely to be learing much about the rhyme and meter of language from guided reading alone. Both are valid and useful in different ways.

Learning to recite poetry does not mean every child has to stand alone and recite a poem frm memory in front of the class, it is often a group activity where you recite as a group and although some teachers may choose to ask some students to recite stanzas alone, one would hope that differentiation within the classroom would take into account those students for whom singling out would be detrimental.

We learnt a poem a week through primary. Would be given a theme and asked to find a poem. I can remember a good proportion of the poems I learnt, some of them many lines long, and it installed in me a love of poetry.

Thats true Shark.I guess it depends how much time is given over to it as a good reader who is also say good at understanding poetry but crap at memorising or reading out loud will get a tad bored if they're subjected to fairly easy text on a regular basis. Just hope it doesn't take time away from actual guided reading sessions.

Long but interesting article on the benefits of memorization and rote learning, a system of education that goes right back to Ancient Greece, but which has fallen out of favour in recent times.

www.city-journal.org/html/14_3_defense_memorization.html

Committing to memory is different to just reading, it commits it, so that you can later emit it in many different forms. It is the difference between typing on a keyboard and calligraphy. It embeds grammar, structure, form, imagery and rhythm into the sponge of a brain.

Look at this 3 year old to see the mastery of words and ideas, the understanding without any need to decode, the performance, the feeling that comes from rectiing by rote the words a poet wrote.

reciting

I don't understand how the recent comments relate to 5yo, many of whom will still be getting to grips with reading.

And I'm not going to watch a youtube of a 3yo child reciting something they have been taught by rote "with feeling". At that age my children sang the usual songs and said the usual rhymes and that was fine by me.

"learning stuff by heart improves memory function"

Is this true? We had to do loads of stuff by heart and my memory is still crap, and i can't remember most of it.

It might be fine by you, but it's not fine by Gove. Gove understands it and he wants more of it.

'Is this true? We had to do loads of stuff by heart and my memory is still crap, and i can't remember most of it.'

It is true for most people, but obviously not for you

Or me or a lot of the older generation such as my mother's where a lot was taught by learning things off by heart.Surely most over 50s would have amazing memories if this was the case.

The danger with learning things off by heart is you don't really get to grips with it. You could easily recite a poem and have absolutely no comprehension on how or why it was constructed.

It's not just about memory, it is about embedding vocabulary and the structure of language and grammar within the brain at an early age. It is like a song of language. Reading and reciting a passage are like the difference between listening and playing a piece of music. When you play music you have a far deeper understanding of music and the same is true when you recite a passage.

And as for memory, many posters have said that their grandmothers can still remember the words to poems, hymns and songs that they were taught as a child. The rhythm of poetry and song burn themselves into the pathways of the brain far more than mere text on a page.

So now 3yo singing nursery rhymes is not good enough? They must be taught to recite poems by rote and mimic "feeling"?

My DD is 3 soon and she is not really talking yet. How is she going to feel about that do you think.

What a load of tosh.

In other countries formal teaching doesn't even start until 6 or 7 - and here there are suggestions that 3yo in the UK be drilled in reciting verses and mimicking "feeling".

I prefer to have my children playing and singing twinkle twinkle little star at that age thanks.

Oh for goodness sake.
DC all over the world do this. As do most DC in the private sector here in the UK (which is what Gove seems to want to emulate a lot of the time).

Why build somehting so innocuous into something that will hurt children?

There are far too many real problems in life to worry about this. Surely?

We are talking about 5 year olds and beyond through primary school. The poetry won't end at the age of 6.

Gove is not going to stop you doing whatever you want, but he is going to increase the emphasis on poetry for other people's children. He is going to enrich their experience of language, literature and culture. You may not like it, but many parents and children will.

'Why build somehting so innocuous into something that will hurt children?'

Very good point. Some people seem to be so anti Gove and the government that they can't even recognise a good policy when it stares them in the face.

What is wrong with the rhymes that they learn at nursery at the moment?

My DD goes to a private preschool (the preschool offering around here is mainly private) and i am very happy indeed with what they do with her. They sing songs like rain rain go away, twinkle twinkle little star, the wheels on the bus. DD has very poor speech but she does her best to join in.

I cannot imagine a situation they were being taught to formally recite verses "with feeling". She would give it her best shot but what with being rubbish at speech it would damage her confidence, I am sure.

At this age development rates are so different that bringing in this type of activity would surely difficult and probably counter-productive.

Claig you were talking about 3yo upthread, and how doing this would be a real boon for them.

Changing your mind about what you have been saying is unhelpful.