Learning to recite poetry from the age of 5

[Morebiscuitsplease]

While I have no problem with the emphasis on grammar and spelling. What does making a child learn poetry by heart really really teach a five year old? Surely appreciation and comprehension are more important. I feel that there are more useful things teachers could be doing with their time. Is this another of Gove's throwbacks to the fifties? if so, can someone please remind him we are educating our children for the 21 st century.

Apart from anything else they pick up and sing theme tunes / catchphrases from the telly.
Really I can't imagine there are that many children in the UK who can't recite / sing a few rhymes.

In fact who knows all of this one by heart...

Round and round, a little boat, no bigger than your hand
Out on the ocean, far away from land
Take the little sail down, light the little light...

"What about the kids who are shy?"

They learn them as a group, don't they? I don't think anyone is going to be stood on a stage under a spotlight, handed a mike and told 'recite!'

DD adores poetry - her favourites are The Tyger and Stopping By Woods. I think this is a great idea. Poetry would widen vacabulary far more than those stupid ORT books and reciting poetry is good for enunciation and confidence. I guess some people see poetry as being elitist or 'not for the likes of them' which is also a good reason to teach it in schools.

Kids nowadays don't seem to have any trouble at all learning the dodgy lyrics to pop songs. Why not poetry?

That's true clam. It was all so different in my day.

It's good to train a child's memory.

Pop songs are poetry.

I think as SardineQueen said, Michael is probably thinking along the lines of Chaucer!

The more crap he comes out with, the more I reckon he's a man with a very high IQ who was into classical literature and 'nerdy' stuff at an early age, and who has absolutely no idea about the bog standard intellect of the rest of the population.

Most of it's soundbites anyway. If he really delved into what schools already do (i.e. did his job properly) he'd find out that we're doing most of what he suggests already.

I think this is a good thing. It's teaching learning and memorising and if they speak their poem out loud, it's aiding confidence and presentation.

I did this at school, so have they stopped this and are reintroducing?

I also thought knowing up to your 12 times table before the age of 9 was standard too (was when I was at school). So these aren't new concepts. But if they were phased out, then it's about time they were reintroduced.

I know what you mean about the shy aspect Rockpool but learning poetry can be a group activity with no-one being singled out to recite on thier own. Much like learning a song (which is just poetry to music) I used to work with the English Shapespeare Company's Education Dept in schools and we would get the kids to learn about iambic pentameter by learning a passge of shakespeare or a sonnet in a big group chorally by reciting the poem as we limped around the room (the limp mimicing the rhythm of the imabic pentameter) the kids loved it and it gave them a good in to learning the text.

Reciting petry as a group can actually help enable kids who are shy and set them on the path to feeling more confident to speak or perform on thier own in class as they get older.

My grandmother would often recite poetry to us as kids right from being babies, and I never thought it was strange to learn a poem by heart. I have done it with DD since she was tiny, reading favourite poems together and in time you find you know them by heart. One of DD's favourites is "When ever I walk in a London Street..." from When We Were Very Young - AA Milne.

I think it is a great way to help with confidence and get the brain into learning things in a different way from being young.

SardineQueen - but maybe if you'd been made to learn poems by rote at pri ary school you'd have developed the skill of learning by rote?

I think it's a skill you can learn like any other - it's not an 'either you can memorise stuff or you can't' kind of thing.

I concur with CheerfulYank. Memorising poetry (including nursery rhymes and lyrics) is an essential part of language development. Being able to "hear" rhyme in particular comes in to play when learning to read.
Young children who are not yet fluent readers are unlikely to appreciate a poem just by looking at it on a page. As for comprehension, learning poetry is a way of expanding vocabulary as new words appear embedded in sentences.
I agree that shy children find reciting poetry harder than naturally outgoing children do. But again, reciting by heart would be much less traumatic than having to speak ad lib or to voice an opinion. From that point of view it could even be used to build confidence.
Memorisation is a useful skill in its own right and learning poetry is an essential part of the primary curriculum.

When DS learns little rhymes or poems at preschool they all recite it together at Circle Time, so no one has to stand up before all the others and do it alone. :)

don't see the point in learning poetry off by heart

Learnimg anything off by heart can often be a good thing. We need to train our brains to remember things all the time. It's a skill that improves with use.

Memorising poetry is great for this. It is also great for:

1. Teaching rhyme and rhythm of language.
2. Teaching articulation (poems work so much better when spoken aloud and well).
3. Introducing a wonderful and often overlooked part of our literature and heritage.
4. Fostering confidence in speaking aloud.

I could go on...

I think also the rhythmic aspect of reciting poetry is beneficial and will aid the children.

Saying there's no point to memorising poetry is similar to saying there's no point learning trigonometry. Everything has a place to produce well rounded and capable future adults IMO.

We did have to learn stuff by rote at primary school, and beyond.
Which is how I know I am crap at it
And why I like doing maths instead

I suspect that the people who approve of this are "wordy" people, while the idea is a little less appealing to those with a more practical/how does it work/understanding the fundamentals is what you need to do and then work things out types.

surely all different types of people need to be served by our schools.

nothing against reading poetry but opposed to learning it off by heart

What is the difference on memorising an equation to memorising a poem then? Why are you averse to memorising?

because it is pointless to do so. You need to learn times tables off by heart so you can access them quickly when you do sums. That kind of rote learning makes sense to me, learning poetry by heart does not.

sardine even the most scientific/analytical children will benefit from honing their articulacy surely?

TBH when I go to church I can't even remember the whole of the lord's prayer and I went to a RC primary school and have been going to church on and off for the last few years

I can however tell you how an internal combustion engine works, operate a vacuum evacuation chamber and am currently studying stats for fun with the OU.

People come in all sorts of different sorts and types - I think that our schools should do things that play to different skills and are appreciated by different sorts of people.

Being able to recite poetry specifically (as opposed to all the other sorts of rhythmic stuff that happens at school anyway) isn't the be all and end all, surely.

I am not averse to memorising. I simply am shit at it unless it is something I am interested in.

I didn't sit around at school thinking "Well I'm going to decide to be crap at this on principle.

I mean it took me until the end of the first year secondary school to even be able to remember all the names of the children in my class

The take up of the free 15 hours in some areas is woeful, especially if the child is the eldest or an only.

It isn't just memory skills that is being developed, absorbing complex language (and in correct grammer) improves reasoning, listening, thinking and processing skills. There is good research going back to the 1950's that shows this.

Jingle's off the television and some rhyme's do not have the same level of language in themas poetry.

There are whole sections of society that are suffering from maternal deprivation that these schemes can help.

They aren't from the types of homes that would be on parenting sites.

Learning to memorise poetry allows kids to tap into thier ability to learn facts, quotes, anf igures using spoken word and rhythm. I learnt scientific facts and equations, times tables and many other facts of figures using this method for my exams. Teaching hte brain how to remember is great practice wether you intend a scientific or artistic career.

PLUS every child's brain is wired differently and for soe this may just trigger thier confidence and ability to learn. Teachers use a range of classroom activites to help children learn and to encourage differentiation within the classroom. Surely to to this is simply making learning more accessible to children who are right brained.