Benefit hatred is out of control.

[carernotasaint]

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/owen-jones-hatred-of-those-on-benefits-is-dangerously-out-of-control-7763793.html

amber it didnt make any sense to me neither at the time as i wasnt claiming any benefits except carers...it was laughable at the time as there was no need to call me in....

as for my anti benefit stance...where have i stated that i am anti benefit....i believe benefits are there to help and support the genuine claimants that need help, whether it is dla, single parents, jobseekers etc....dont put words that i have posted that do not exist

i am very anti dla benefit fraud ...as i have stated, no one minds genuine, deserving cases but there are others who take the piss out the system with fake illnesses and disabilities...especially when there are ppl out there who genuinely need help and support and have to fight for their children/loved ones and go through appeals system etc

as for 0.5%...is this the figure of ppl caught out....

Fake illnesses and fake disabilities

What are they? you must be aware of how hard it is to get DLA? you cant fake disability, you need supporting medical evidence to be sent with your claim, real evidence that you cant just magic up, like documents/letters from paediatricians/consultants/etc.

Do you think that is easy to fake?

I am very anti DLA fraud too, but I dont think its the huge problem that you seem to think it is, I think DLA claimant bashing and judgement is much more of an issue.

as i have stated, no one minds genuine, deserving cases but there are others who take the piss out the system with fake illnesses and disabilities...especially when there are ppl out there who genuinely need help and support and have to fight for their children/loved ones and go through appeals system

What are these 'fake illnesses and disabilities' can you give examples?

It sort of sounds a bit like the mindset of unless you are in a wheelchair you arent disabled.

the 0.5% is not all the people caught. its only the number caught who had a plan to defraud from the outset.

if you make a reasonable claim then improve and dont tell DWP & get caught, it is not classified as fraud.

amber "It sort of sounds a bit like the mindset of unless you are in a wheelchair you arent disabled. " what a load of twonk....

fake illnesses and disabilities...in case of family member..she claims to have athritis and back problems...
cant hold a cup/ cant get dressed/ needs help showering/ needs help cooking meals/ cant walk far/ needs supervison when walking with aid as she may fall etc etc

in reality she can cook a meal/ feed and dress herself/ shower/walk her dog 3 times a day with no aid or support/ needs no supervison/can knit and sew/ goes on foreign holidays/ dances around pissed as a fart at parties....

as for medical evidence....she goes to the docs all curled up and struggling to walk, exaggerating and faking an illness/disability...the doc sees this...they are going to put it on a form her capabilities

in private her capabilities are very different from medical point of view

and you tell me dla fraud is nigh on impossible....pfft it is a joke

thx wasabi i didnt know it was that...the figure would probably be a lot higher if improvements not being informed...

DP has two close relatives who have been on IB for years (10, 20 years).

the rules for IB were very open to abuse. they both have illnesses which stop them doing thing they dont want to do, but never interfere with things they do want to do.

Thats not right Wasabi.

That figure includes

Fraud: This includes all cases where the following three conditions apply:the basic conditions for receipt of benefit, or the rate of benefit in payment, are not being met; the customer can reasonably be expected to be aware of the effect on entitlement; and benefit stops or reduces as a result of the review

Customer Error: The customer has provided inaccurate or incomplete information, or failed to report a change in their circumstances, but there is no fraudulent intent on the customer?s part

Official Error: Benefit has been paid incorrectly due to inaction, delay or a mistaken assessment by the DWP, a Local Authority or Her Majesty?s Revenue and Customs

Its all counted under that figure.

So there you go, thats what makes up the 0.5% DLA 'fraud' rate.

amber your comment "Official Error: Benefit has been paid incorrectly due to inaction, delay or a mistaken assessment by the DWP, a Local Authority or Her Majesty?s Revenue and Customs2

the keyword is inaction..in other words the dwp decided not to prosecute..so would be off the total figure for fraud

research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem/fem_apr10_mar11.pdf

this does not appear to agree with you. Table 2.1: Estimated overpayments in 2010/11

its a lot of money!

Sorry ive got that wrong.

The combined figure for all of those 3 categories is actually 1.9% I do beg your pardon.

Fraud is 0.5%

Customer error is 0.6%

Official error is 0.8%

But even with that, customer error [otherwise known as trying it on when you're actually much better] is still only 0.6% and 0.2% less than official error.

Those of you who know people that defraud the system - you need to be reporting it and not whinging on here. Therre are many of us who ARE entitled to payments struggling with the changes this Govt are making. Tbh I could not give a shit about who you know that is faking - all I want to know is wtf you are doing to change it.
In the meantime I will continue worrying about the GENUINE need I (or rather my DS) have.
I will NOT be forced into work by this contemptuous shower in Govt, I will do what I have to do in order to meet my child's needs.

And isn't it a tiny bit ironic that on a thread about benefit hatred you are posting about those who defraud the system - do you see my point? Like everyone else who "knows someone that fakes" you view people making these claims with suspicion. The point is that c hannnels exist for reporting fraud but like many others you are guilty of looking on in envy at your crappy relatives/acquaintances and just damning the whole system.

Table 2.1: Estimated overpayments in 2010/11 its a lot of money

Overpayments can and are taken back though. overpayments arent the same as fraud. overpayments are classed as official error.

i am not envious of Dps relatives. they have wasted their own lives & the system has helped them do it.

so you want the best for your family, so do i.

And isn't it a tiny bit ironic that on a thread about benefit hatred you are posting about those who defraud the system - do you see my point? Like everyone else who "knows someone that fakes" you view people making these claims with suspicion. The point is that c hannnels exist for reporting fraud but like many others you are guilty of looking on in envy at your crappy relatives/acquaintances and just damning the whole system

Exactly.

It all sounds like the 'oh hes got a bad back but I saw him in tescos last week...and he was laughing too

Doctors and consultants diagnose. they dont just do that based on how good someones hobbly walk looks on any given day you know!

Oh and the plural of anecdotes is not data.

amber - read the table please, its contains fraud and error figures higher than the much quoted 0.5%

amber -so is you family just anecdotes?

What do my family have to do with it?

you're the one talking about your DPs scrounging relatives.

amber - read the table please, its contains fraud and error figures higher than the much quoted 0.5%

Not for DLA it doesnt.

The one thing I would say about Incapacity Benefit based on direct experience of looking closely at the finances of people who are on when I worked for a charity is that some people in old post industrial towns are far better off on IB than working for minimum wage.

The incentive to stay on IB once you have got past the initial assessment is significant - especially for people over 50 with few or no marketable qualifications.

IB is well known to have been used by successive Govts (beginning with Thatcher) to reduce unemployement numbers in areas of high unemployement. When steel mills and mines were shut down union officials routinely advised men to 'go on the sick' if they had any kind of injury or illness. Many stayed on it until retirement age although they coudl have done lighter less physical work. Many man though refused to do 'womens work' in shops or call centres.

I have read official DWP reports that confirm the rapid rise in IB claiming.

Regardless of illness or disability you should not be better off on benefits than working.

Morebeta, no you shouldnt be better off on benefits than working, the answer to that is to pay a decent wage and for the gov to not prop up large business by paying out tax credits.

codandchops if you are referring to me, just say so plz...i do not blame you or your circumstances as i have stated i have been where you are and fought tooth and nail...

as for reporting...it would mean the end of my marriage, i would never be forgiven by my hubby or children..that is a risk i am not prepared to take...even anonymously...they fortunately feel the same as me but would never report it....

as for jealously...i do not envy ppl who claim dla, i support the genuine..as for the fake ones they are a drain on resources to the genuine cases and that makes me angry....

amber - DLA fraud and error 1.9.% made up of fraud 0.5%, customer error 0.6%, official error 0.8%

Yes Wasabi, I quoted those figures up thread.