Benefit hatred is out of control.

[carernotasaint]

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/owen-jones-hatred-of-those-on-benefits-is-dangerously-out-of-control-7763793.html

It is still fair. If you pay 30% of your £300k income £90,000 tax) and someone else who perhaps doesn't work night and day and gets home at 6 every night and never works a weekend earns pays 30% of £30,000 ie £9000 the higher earner is very unfairly paying £81,000 more tax ! I would say a capped flat tax as better - that say no one pays more than £50,000 tax a year or £100k or wherever you set it at.

I am not sure if this is what people have linked above but this plan is brilliant and all mumsnetters should support it and lobby their MP for it, issued this week:-

2020 Tax Commission, Tax Payers' Alliance and IoD propose:-

one rate of income tax (30%),

abolition of stamp duty and national insurance,

public spending to reduce to a third of national income (been over 40% of last 30 years)

Replacing corporate and capital gains tax with 30% tax on dividends, interest and rent

Scrap air passenger duty

Fule duty cut by 5p a litre

Would mean a £3400 tax cut for a two earn erhousehold on £28,000.

Says would lead to 8.4% increase in GDP after 15 years.

Sounds very good. Might even get Cameron re-elected if he adopts the plan.

[[http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5ifFvHAcJMXsx
54rwIVBum8nj31Ww?docId=N0212261337479067198A]] and in the Times p4

I certainly support a universal benefit whether you work or not to all people 18 or over of say £200 a week to include all your housing and other needs too.Then youc an dismantle that part of the state which wastes so much time working out eligiblity. Just pay everyone the £10,400 a year. It may well be less than £13k minimum wage and less than generous housing benefits but people can move or 3 or 4 mothers can live together having £40k between them. It would work and would mean those who chose not to work or were old were paid and those who worked would also get the same sum on top of their wages. There would be no incentive to fiddle the system.

No, my dad developed a degenerative condition as a adult, so I obviously would not think that. I have seen on mn numerous times when someone says people are living longer and on average healthier so the increase in disability claimants unlikely, the response being its due to better neonatal care and more children surviving.

I was pointing out the figures dont support this idea.

That was responding to amberleaf

'Interesting that before the election DC was photographed with his son Ivan - take a look at the pictures - he looks entirely at the camera andf not once at his child. Uncaring and unfeeling bastard who used the media to project one image while hiding his true nature. Yes I hare the fucker.'

That is a really foul thing to say about any parent who has lost a child. I know some families and nurses locally who knew the family and they would strongly object to what you have said. How can you judge from photos? In fact there are many photos showing just the opposite.

Shame on you.

I agree Abra1d.

thought it was a horrible thing to say.

The press really does tell lies about benefit claimants.

fullfact.org/leveson/evidence/FF2.Full_Fact_Submission-_Examples_of_inaccuracy.pdf

Nancy66 at the moment, someone on £30k is likely paying a higher marginal rate % tax rate than a very wealthy person who can use all sorts of quite legal avoidance schemes.

The flat tax scheme and universal benefit actually addresses your issue.

Under a flat tax scheme people on low wages obviously pay less total £ of income tax and also a lower average rate of tax as the following example shows.

Assuming someone gets a £10k universal benefit and earns minimum wage of £10k. If the income tax rate was 50% they would would pay £5k tax which is 25% of total income.

Someone on £100k of salary would pay £50k tax which means they pay out 45% of their total £110k income.

Under flat tax with a universal benefit , low paid people pay a lower average rate of tax and high paid people always pay the same marginal (highest rate) which is surely a good thing.

Bu the whole 'we are the caring ones' only applies if you agree. If you disagree, you get DC doesn't care for his dcs etc. which is v interesting.

People are living longer at the moment. This may not be the case in another 10, 20, 30 years as the general health of the population is not necessarily improving, they are not generally fitter, as shown by the increasing obesity rates and no obvious decrease in usage of the NHS. I'm sure if fewer people needed operations for preventable health conditions, it would have been plastered all over the media as a "result" - haven't seen it.

People who are living longer now are in their 70s, 80s, 90s - the people needing disability payments, I don't know the breakdown, does anyone? But they'll be throughout the entire age range.

This may not be the clearest point, but what I'm trying to say is that "people are living longer" isn't going to cut much ice as an argument in the next couple of decades.

Wasabi - what are you talking about?

why would you think DC doesn't care about his own kids. what a moronic thing to say.

amberleaf of course there are chancers who try their luck...you even accused me of claiming as a single parent or even lying when i was called in for a back to work interview....which i wasnt..if you realise at that time i had protected carers status..but yet i was still called in...now still call me a liar or a cheat....

the system does make mistakes

ppl do claim not just dla but single parents as you suggested to get more money from the system..whilst their hubby and or partner/ wife etc work and pretend not to live together/ jobseekers who claim they dont work yet have a 40 hr week job, they havent declared or use false names, national insurance etc

no-one on here would begrudge genuine claimants who need help and support, not just dla/but jobseekers/ lone parents etc etc...

and to state that not much benefit fraud goes on is ludicrous..it does...and no not from daily fail but from real life where ppl are feigning illness and disabilities to claim dla and screw the system....as i said a family member has done this for years...she is now shitting her pants with the new rules coming in as her lifestyle will be very much affected...she will not be able to afford 3-4 foreign hols a year....she can walk, very well and needs no supervison...yet is careful not to do this in public in case she is caught out

my ds was never allowed to go abroad as no company would insure him...he was a wheelchair user with severe global development delay and no dx....he was a 6mth old baby all throughout his life and i had to fight tooth and nail for him whilst others do get away with it....this makes my blood boil.

medical evidence is partially from what the patient/carer describes as what is their WORST day scenario....

for myself and others on these boards these worst day scenarios were/are 24/7 365 a year...no one would deny they need help and support

for others there are bad days offset with 100 good days...maybe less maybe more......do these ppl deserve the same level of support/ the same rate of care...i dont think so..i have an invisible disability that knocks me for six for weeks on end/ where i cant eat/shit/intermitted with bouts of severe diarrohea. vomitting up all kinds...i have had 2 resections but once i am well, i am ok ...i am not entitled to dla, i dont want to be entitled to dla...as i had a son who was more disabled than i would ever see in my life...i can not even equate my disability to his nor would i want to.....

when i lost my ds i was given one week bereavement...one lousy week, where ppl came in and took the equipment laughing about their daily lives..from the very room he had died in.....one lousy week when i was informed from housing association to start packing as in their words "we had no need for a specially adapted house now"...one lousy week to beg my employer for full time work, which i got....on top of sorting funeral arrangements for my lad....

the system stinks for the genuine out there.....

but the ones that should be blamed...yes the scroungers who drain our resources get away with it....it needs stamping out and fast...these are the ones that are allowing a mockery of the genuine....

Nancy - ooops what i said was very ambiguous....

my DF had a degnerative condition which left him unable to feed himself/use the toilet. however the current benefit system is too expensive and open to abuse.

this means i get told by other posters i dont know what i am talking about/am vile etc. this makes me question where some of the posters who claim to be 'caring' are really coming from. DC seems to be getting the same treatment from them.

TBH the impression i got was the pro benefits posters just wanted me to pay more tax & STFU about any other viewpoint than theirs.

I'm loving how on a benefit hatred thread it's gone completely OT to a 'discussion' which essentially centres around benefits not existing.

By the way I've just heard my daughter needs her second surgery in 10 months. Wonder what's going to happen when I've been forced out to work? Can see an employer loving all that extra time off....

Universal benefits is the way forward. I agree.

Look guys, bottom line is there was an assumption that 'the free market' could carry this level of social welfare.

It can't.

glitter for your dd xxx

amberleaf of course there are chancers who try their luck...you even accused me of claiming as a single parent or even lying when i was called in for a back to work interview....which i wasnt..if you realise at that time i had protected carers status..but yet i was still called in...now still call me a liar or a cheat

I know about protected carers status doormat, you get it if you are claiming income suport, if you are not claiming benefit you dont need protected carers status.

You get called for a back to work interview if you are claiming income support as a single parent. if your child is under a certain age or you are a carer then you are exempt [as you have protected status] if you are a carer but also claim as a single parent you may be called in under the rules of single parents/youngest child reaching a certain age.

Protected status as a carer is so you dont have to partake in back to work programmes/courses etc or be forced to look for work/sign on fortnightly due to your caring responsibilities.

and to state that not much benefit fraud goes on is ludicrous..it does...and no not from daily fail but from real life where ppl are feigning illness and disabilities to claim dla and screw the system

0.5% is the DWP own fraud rate statistic. argue with them about that not me.

It is a very low amount and as I said more goes unclaimed that people are entitled to than is claimed fraudulently.

amberleaf i was not claiming nothing but carers as dh worked...they made a mistake

you seem to know the ins and outs of the benefit system...more than i obviously do....

hmm i bet there is more to you than you lead us to believe...

and it was in 2006...not recently...

and what age is it when child reaches a certain age that you get called back in....there was no need to call me in as i didnt claim any benefits except carers....dint even claim housing benefit or council tax

you seem to know the ins and outs of the benefit system

I know the ins and outs of the parts that apply to me yes, I am a carer for my disabled son and I claim income support and carers allowance.

hmm i bet there is more to you than you lead us to believe

Yes I am a secret agent for north Korea....but only on saturdays.

well why are you so adamant to call me a liar or a cheat when i was neither....the system is not perfect it makes mistakes

Simply because what you are saying doesnt make sense?

also because you clearly have an anti benefits/all claimants are on the make metality as illustrated below and in other posts by you.

you seem to know the ins and outs of the benefit system...more than i obviously do

hmm i bet there is more to you than you lead us to believe

Amber - but other posters are allowed to experience loss and grief and have a different opinion than you.

When did I say they arent Wasabi?