We Believe You - continued

[Frontpaw]

The old thread was full. It was the first of a few I think.

Excellent post LtEveDallas

Hello,

We just wanted to let you see the text of a letter that was sent to Gordon Taylor, Chief Executive of the PFA, a couple of days ago. The letter was co-signed by Justine, Holly Dustin of the End Violence Against Women coalition (one of our 'I Believe You' partners), and teacher Leo Hardt, whose Change.org petition to ask the PFA to remove Ched Evans from its League 1 Team of the Year has nearly 22,000 signatories.

The letter reads:

"We write to you expressing our concerns at Ched Evans' inclusion in your League One team of the year, just two days after his conviction for the rape of a teenage girl.

A change.org petition calling for Evans' removal from the list currently has almost 15,000 signatures. Campaigns on Facebook, Mumsnet, Twitter and numerous other websites are growing on an hourly basis, supported by thousands who believe that you have acted wrongly in this instance.

It is not good enough to say that the decision to keep a convicted rapist on an award list such as this one can be attributed solely to performance on the pitch, with complete disregard for such a serious criminal conviction.

Football holds a privileged position in the UK's national psyche; you have a responsibility to ensure that footballers make a positive contribution to the sport and wider society. This means ensuring that a footballer who commits a serious crime and is convicted for that offence, is not then the recipient of an honour or award. We urge you to reconsider your decision and withdraw the award from Ched Evans.

We note your previous statement that the PFA does not seek to condone Evans' actions by including him in this list, but it is obvious from the strength and volume of opposition to this award that this sentiment is disingenuous at best.

Over recent years we have seen positive action taken across the footballcommunity to tackle the issue of racism in the game and among some supporters. We feel the issues of sexism and sexual violence now requires similar attention and effort.

Last week you were quoted as saying 'If he had been removed from the team it would have created more of a storm.' We hope that the response from thousands of people across a number of social networks has sent a clear message - Ched Evans has no place in your team of the year.

We request a response from you as a matter of urgency."

And some further quotes from Justine and Holly:

"Mumsnet users feel very strongly that the PFA were wrong to honour Ched Evans only two days after his conviction for rape. They were also disgusted that his victim was outed online and many hundreds posted their support for her. Our 'We Believe You' campaign aims to expose the type of rape myths perpetuated by some of Ched Evans' supporters and we very much hope the PFA will listen to the strength of feeling both on Mumsnet and expressed via this petition." (Justine Roberts)

"The PFA must think again about its decision to include convicted rapist Ched Evans in its end of season honours list.

Football fans, and especially young people, look to successful football players as role models. Such recognition from the PFA sends a message that off the pitch behaviour, whatever it be, does not matter, when it clearly does.

We want the PFA and FA to show leadership by running an ongoing 'kick sexism out of football' campaign. This case also shows the urgent need for football authorities and individual clubs to work with women's groups to run anti sexual violence programmes. PFA and FA leaders should have a vision of the sport as one which is fully inclusive and safe to watch and play for all members of the community." (Holly Dustin, EVAW Coalition Director)

Thanks
MNHQ

FormSquare - as you yourself have stated, we have a justice system to deal with this kind of thing.

The Justice System found Ched Evans guilty of rape.

He is, therefore, a rapist. So your link to one woman who falsely accused someone of rape is not relevant. This woman has been put in front of a judge and jury and she was declared to be a rape victim whilst he was declared to be a rapist.

No doubt they trawled through lots of CCTV and evidence to reach their conclusions. We have an excellent justice system in the UK and they found him guilty.

What is happening now is that the case is being used by an ignorant section of society who do not believe in the justice system. Some of these people think that is a woman is too drunk to even stand up, then she is fair game to have sex with. Some have even described it as a "typical one night stand", which makes you wonder how many women they themselves, have raped.

If a man was so blatantly drunk that he could barely stand, and a group of homosexual men came across him, put him in a taxi, took him to a hotel room and then two of them had sex with him whilst others filmed it - would this be classed as rape? Because I'm damn sure that if that man woke up, feeling sore in his arse, with no clothes on and no memory; if he had to piece together what happened from the hotel receptionist and if the police seized footage of the incident on the perpetrators phones, what do you think would happen?

Why is this being seen as different because she is a woman?

What this campaign is doing is to highlight the rape myths circulating around this case. It is highlighting ignorant attitudes and it is sending out a clear message that if you have sex with someone who is not in a state to give consent - that is rape. Pure and simple. The UK Justice System agrees wholeheartedly with that. Hopefully by making this abundantly clear, women who were previously too afraid to report their attacks to the police may come forward and we can get more rapists off our streets.

This is not about falsely crying rape. She was exonerated in the courts. So any comparison to a single case involving a false accusation is completely and utterly irrelevant.

ooh, great letter Rowan.

Will be interesting to see what they come back with.

CherryBlossom, thank you

Rhubarb: This- Some have even described it as a "typical one night stand", which makes you wonder how many women they themselves, have raped terrifies me. I was horrifed at how many times I saw that sort of shit written down when all this blew up. Bloody good post.

Rowan, excellent letter, lets hope MN gets a decent reply.

Great posts Basil, Eve and Rhubarb.

One of the most disturbing tweets was the one that said something like "not premeditated but he gets 5 years for lack of consent". How can they not see that lack of consent is the definition of rape?!

And great letter MNHQ.

Yep, I think it shows just how common casual rape of women is.

And most women don't report it, becasue they put it down to "bad sex", or a mistake on their part, or they know it's rape but they won't get a conviction so they put it behind them and move on.

And the internet mob which has conducted a hate campaign against Ched Evan's victim, is bloody furious that one woman has managed to get justice for the casual rape they want to be free to carry on committing. They're scared that one day, they and their son's won't be able to do this anymore without being called to justice and that their daughters will be free from the threat of this.

Shows how much they love their daughters, doesn't it.

That's their favourite argument isn't it, what if it was your son? I'd be ashamed to be his mother if it was.

If it were my son, I'd be distraught.
And I'd feel mortified that our family had brought up a human being who could even begin to think that what he did was in any way acceptable.

I would think I had failed as a mother, to echo that woman in Strictly Ballroom.

Thank you for sending that letter MN.

I believe her.

Some have even described it as a "typical one night stand"

OMFG

I am just so very very sad for my daughter and all the other girls who are growing up in a world that presumes if you have a vagina, you're fair game.

My son will be brought up to respect the rights of everyone and should he ever ever cross the line, I'll be in court on the side of the prosecution.

the vilification of the victim, the words used to insult her, the identification of her by name on the net, the threats made towards her, the dismissal of the rape as something "we have all done", "just a another one night stand" and the "there but by the grace of God" type comments have stunned me. I hadn't realised the extent of this type of hatred. I hope a very clear message will be made in the way those offenders tracked down are prosecuted.It is very important to deal with this seriously.

Further down the thread someone posted 25% of women experience rape of sexual abuse. I don't know how this estimate was made but if that is realistic that is 1 in 4 women. THe chances that your dds or a woman you know personally could be subjected to it are very high if the figures are correct.

Ched Evan's parents are going through a very hard time. I don't personally wish anything bad on them or condemn them. What strikes me as important here is that our society needs changing so it is a safer place for women, we need more awareness of what constitutes rape (apparently a great deal of men and even women don't seem to know) and we need better support for victims of rape from the time they report through to post court procedure trauma. If rape cases so rarely come before the court and from those that do so few achieve a prosecution, perhaps we need a department that recognises this and provides support right the way through the process.

To my knowledge I know one victim of rape only. She was raped 10 years before I met her. She would still break down regularly because of it, she worked alongside her regular job to support victims of rape but she herself needed more than a shoulder to cry on. It has horrible long term effects. It is a terrible terrible thing to do to someone.

There was a comment on the other thread that is really worth repeating:

NorfolkNChance
'This idea of women being in a constant state of consent really concerns me. Unless we explicitly say no we are up for anything.'

Some people seem to have distorted the 'No means no' message in their tiny minds to such an extent that they actually believe it isn't rape unless the woman says no - unconscious people CAN'T SAY NO. IT IS STILL RAPE.

Sex is something that requires active consent.

^ Exactly what Puffin said ^

Exactly what NorfolkNChance said. The emphasis needs to be placed on proving that consent was given not proving that there was no consent.

Yes yes, I hate the way that some people think you have to literally say 'no' for it to be rape. It should be 'no until we say yes', not the other way around.

That's my reservation about that slogan NarkedPuffin. That it assumes No - it puts the onus on a woman, who may be scared, socialised to be polite, unbelieving that this is happening to her, to make sure a man doesn't rape her "by accident" instead of putting the onus on a man not to rape a woman "by accident" by ensuring that she actually wants him in her body. The onus should be on the person who is bigger and stronger and about to enter another person's body , to ensure that he's welcome there.

Here's a blog post about the reality of No which I think says it all:

fugitivus.wordpress.com/2009/06/26/another-post-about-rape-3/

I believe her

and thats a very good letter MNHQ.

I believe her

If the action of intoxicating a woman to such an extent that she is incapable of making a rational decision exempts a man from being found guilty of rape then that is surely giving men who are that way inclined carte blanche to ply any woman he desires with alcohol (or other substances) until she is at his mercy, or hunt out women who have themselves become drunk enough to be preyed upon.

Those women out there who have commented along the lines of "sounds like a normal one night stand" have an incredibly warped perspective on what is right and wrong, and sound themselves vulnerable for this type of abuse as a result.

I believe you,