Stand up for your elders as a mark of respect

[Galvanise]

David Cameron has said that children should (stand) and it reminded me of a custom in middle east where children will stand when their father walks into the room as a mark of affection and respect. As the children reach adulthood they will start standing for both mum and dad. (I think it happens in the chinese and japanese culture too, but am not sure)

Is this such a bad thing to adopt here too?

We had some teachers who expected this when I was at school. It made bugger all difference to whether we respected them or not (why would it?). We respected good teachers and despised bad ones. I don't know why people seem to think that children think any differently than adults. To me this sort of thing is all about artificial rules of deference and belong to a bygone age.

We have a culture of equality in our school and equal respect.
So you'd stand up for parent helpers, the premises officer, teachers, LSA's, visiting adults...everyone is seen as having equal status.
It is outmoded and there are better ways of showing good manners.

I wonder why there is so much setting up of straw arguments on this thread?

Cameron did not any random grown up: he said "their teachers". I'm sure a school can easily set sensible parameters abou who counts as a teacher. Ater all, state schools used to, and some might till do.

It's no more ridiculous a custom than eg shaking hands. A totally harmless way of getting attention at the arrival of the teacher (I am thinking secondary here, not primary, even we didn't do it at that age).

To me the position of teacher should automatically command respect, even if a handful of incumbents of that position don't actually merit it. I tend to assume competence.

I'll wait for the directive then.
Do you think it could count against the time allocated to PE?
Stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down. Repeat.

We used to do it in secondary school but never for adults who appeared during the lesson (actually, very few did, I still find going into a teacher's lesson half way through a scary thing to do as it was pretty unheard of at my school). I do know what DC means, it does focus the mind, but we were an incredibly compliant lot anyway (single sex state grammar). I don't see why any school or teacher couldn't put it into place if they wanted to anyway. Do they really need tips on classroom management from a chap who's supposed to have a different fulltime job and has never taught in his life?*

*AFAIK

Well, at 55, I think everybody younger should stand up for me.
It would be the only advantage of getting older.

" A totally harmless way of getting attention at the arrival of the teacher"

But I don't 'arrive' to my classes, they wait outside till I let them in, and I stand at the door and greet them as they enter. By the time I get to the front, they are busy getting their stuff out and getting started on any starter questions.

As for when teachers come to my room with notices etc, I would like my classes not to be disrupted.

I make ds stand up to say hello and goodbye. But to his friends as well as adults.

My DC go to a school where they have to stand up whenever the HT enters the room. I never used to have a problem with it, TBH, I think children should respect their teachers and in the main my DC do. However, DS1, DH and I were invited to attend Prize Night last autumn so we pitched up and I sat down. I am disabled and was just out of hospital after having major surgery. The deputy head requested that the audience stood for the HT. DH stood, but said to me "don't bother, soap" because the chair was low and he knew it would hurt me to get up. I was tapped on the shoulder by another teacher and asked to stand, because this effing woman who is full of her own self importance refused to come into the hall until DH had pulled me up into the standing position! I was bloody livid!

Thank you for reminding me of another reason to despise Dave and his desperate attempts to deflect attention from the fuck-up he is as a Prime Minister.

EdithWeston
"I wonder why there is so much setting up of straw arguments on this thread?"

Because as teachers we know what would happen.

I know parents that complain about uniform policy.
detention policy
homework policy
I know parents that have complained because their children have long hair and were made to tie it back in a DT/Art/Craft lesson.

Do you really think that some pupils wouldn't see this as another way of getting out of a lesson that they don't like/can't be bothered with?

Actually, the getting out of a lesson but hadn't occurred to me, as I simply don't remember that happening in the 5 years I was in a school that did this.

But to say "we can't do XYZ because some children are disobedient" doesn't strike me as a terribly good response to anything.

It looks as if he didn't pull the idea out of thin air either. As well as being widely found in state school in my day, it is currently one of the praised features of Mossbourne Academy which does seem to have done amazing things in a tough and deprived part of the country and which is sought after by parents.

This would need the backing of all teachers, school management (including the head, assitant heads. team leads, heads of departments etc.) governors, LEA, ofsted and central government

all school internal departments (inclusion, sen etc.) would have to be 100% behind it. No letting little Timmy/Sally off because they "haz izzuez".

It would have to be backed by a vast majorty of the pupils and all of the parents, carers and external support groups.

Any wavering on sanctions and any parents that do not back the school doing this would undermine the whole process.

this doesn't mention the response from the newspapers who to date have done such a wonderful job of backing the schools. how long would it be before we had the first my child was put in isolation/excluded because they wouldn't stand up for the worst teacher in the school? we already have these headlines for haircuts and uniform infringements.

if you can sort all of these out I am happy to give it a go.

At Mossbourne they stand up for all adults not just teachers.

When people visit my office I don't bob up and down in my seat. I get on with my work or continue conversations with colleagues.

Similarly I don't expect children to stand up for teachers. I expect them to get on with their work quietly. As others have said, if there were many visits I'd want to know why so many people felt free to interrupt lessons instead of waiting for a more appropriate time.

It just another crowd-pleaser from a Prime Minister who doesn't have any solutions to real problems.

And if Dave wants a return to a golden age of respect he should really start practicing what he preaches. The tales of his rudeness to those he considers underlings are legion.

here's one from a Tory journalist who's returned to the theme several times

Anyone who saw Dave stalk out of PMQs with a petulant gesture last Wednesday while Ed Balls was still asking him, the Prime Minister, a question, would wonder where he learned his manners or what he thinks PMQs stands for.

Getting the kids to stand up isn't a solution to anything. Mossbourne Academy will be doing great things in tough circumstance with a whole raft of measures, the most important of which will be sanctions which are consistently backed up by a visible and supportive SLT.

God, the man's a fucking idiot.

We had to stand when a teacher entered the room at school, but I wouldn't expect my children to stand up when I or any other adults walk in. You show respect with your general behaviour not with an empty gesture.

It would need backing from all responsible for conduct in the school. I don't see why it needs to go wider - after all, some schools have always done it, and Mossbourne shows that the number is increasing as new schools adopt it too and it can (and does) work perfectly well.

And being a part of a wider ethos and set of conduct standards is the very point. And although the press quoted only the soundbites, and OP majored on only one from those, if you look at the speech as a whole it seems Cameron was actually using this simply as a talking point about the wider support for good conduct in schools, and the posts here (even those which dislike the detail) are all supporting his main message.

It's not his message, it was an expectation at the schools that I've taught in for the last 30 years. Walking, politeness, not yelling at a member of staff, holding doors open, being helpful.
It's not new, and in many places it never went away.

I thought standing when someone entered the room was to make them feel more comfortable, as walking into a room where people are sitting and talking can be daunting.

Surely a teacher and pupils are all moving around together at the end of one class and the start of another and therefore there wouldn't be any need for this to happen.

There are some classes in school where manners could be looked at and how manners are really a kindness to other people to make them feel comfortable and why we can do things or possibly do things to make others feel comfortable. But parents could be teaching children manners, like we all wait until everyone is sitting before we start dinner, or we stand when a visitor comes into a room as a welcoming gesture.

It is about being kind to each other

Nice to see agreement!

Edith - it is politeness really

'But parents could be teaching children manners'

What, even teenagers? Really? Isn't that the school's job?