Christians being discriminated against...

[Snorbs]

...says Lord Carey of Clifton, a man who was elevated to the House of Lords because he is a Christian.

He wrote to the European Court of Human Rights because he feels that Christians in the UK are being "vilified" by the British courts, as evidenced by the (very small) number of people who have been sacked for ignoring their employment contracts expressing their faith. He goes on:

In a country where Christians ... are in fear of reprisal or even arrest for expressing their views on sexual ethics, something is very wrong.

Or, to put it more succinctly, "How dare you suggest we should follow the law about not discriminating against gay people".

The man is an idiot. What he wants is for Christians to be continued to be allowed special treatment - i.e. to be exempt from laws that the rest of us have to follow. Rightly, the world has moved on.

I also think he has weakened his case by including the matter of people wearing crosses in the workplace (which should be fine and is by me, and I'm an atheist) and people like Lilian Ladele, who refused to do part of the work she was being paid to do (i.e. carry out civil partnerships for homosexual couples).

In the first two cases (the crosses) he has a point and this should be sorted out. In the other two cases (the registrar and the relationship counsellor) he is simply wrong. If you take on a job, you should do all of it, not just the bits you want to. Start letting people choose not to provide services to someone because of their sexual orientation or because of their faith, and you open the door to all the bad things we've managed to get rid of in recent decades.

IMO we should also not allow pharmacists to refuse to provide the morning after pill - when you choose to become a pharmacist, that is one of the things that is part of your job.

Poor old Christians being marginalised with no access to the Government...

Oh.

"beliefs which are not contrary to the public good"

Wowser. I recognise the need for some Christians, including some of my friends, to oppose gay marriage because their belief system (in their opinion) tells them to do so but to claim that these beliefs are not contrary to the public good is a tad sweeping. As if the rest of us poor deluded fools (gay and straight) need a handful of clerics to decide our business for us.

I love the idea that Christianity is being 'driven underground' as he apparently claims. Yes, it must be brutal having the head of one of the major branches of British Christianity as .. the Queen.

It's remarkable isn't it? Christianity being driven underground, except for all the schools that should, by law, be having regular christian-based worship. And if we ignore all the churches everywhere. And don't mention the half-dozen cabinet ministers who went to see the pope a couple of months ago.

Presumably Carey's extensive theology-based education missed the definitions of concepts such as "hypocrite", "straw-man argument", and "complete bollocks". Maybe a more rounded education would've done him some favours.

Any Rabbi's in the House of Lords yet?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Neuberger,_Baroness_Neuberger

There have been others as well.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Jakobovits,_Baron_Jakobovits

misread that as 'any rabbits in the house of lords yet?'
can't help but be disappointed by julia neuberger's ears...

I'm fed up with the liberal consensus that thinks it's appalling to make any -ist jokes about anything (which it is) but has a blind spot about Christianity. I don't go around telling nasty untrue stories whose only point is to have a 'humorous' go at the race, sexual orientation, religion, sex or disability of anyone else and would appreciate the courtesy of not having my own beliefs mocked in return.

fussbucket, which "untrue stories" are you referring to?

fussbucket, what jokes are you talking about? I've never made a 'Christianist' joke, and I've never really heard any apart from those told by Christians about themselves.

fussbucket, I hope it was pretty clear in this thread that none of us were having a go at Christians or Christianity. I don't believe in it (Christianity that is, I believe in Christians!) but I find Carey's arguments to be preposterous. I'm not mocking your beliefs; if you share Carey's view, that is an opinion and can be challenged without offence being intended. You haven't said whether you do share his view or not - that's up to you.

I am a Christian, my view on sexual ethics.....

Love is what it's all about and it doesn't matter to me if that's gay love or standard.

There.......am I going to be arrested now Lord Carey?

I don't think so...

.

The problem is that Christians and Christianity have held a position of privilege in British society for so long that now they are being asked to conform to the law of the land it feels to some as if they are being discriminated against.

The law of the land also protects religious expression. And the law is lacking as it does really cover what happens when two protected freedoms come into conflict.

The bigger crunch point is not going to be about the very broad and tolerant CofE of the established church. Other religions and denominations also condemn homosexuality.

The stifling of little things, like the wearing of jewellery with religious significance, does leave a nasty impression of intolerance.

"The stifling of little things, like the wearing of jewellery with religious significance, does leave a nasty impression of intolerance."

It would if it happened, but it doesn't.

Hmmmm.

Dont know.

I am a christian. I dont wear a cross personally as a) I dont wear any jewellery apart from my wedding band and b) my faith is my faith. Its personal. I dont feel the need to advertise it IYSWIM?

I think people should be allowed to wear crosses if they want, but surely for hcps any jewellry is an infection risk??? I thought it was sad that the newreader (susannah reid??) was told not to wear a cross, but again, the BBC is paid for by the public and some people who pay their license fee might object.

I send my dc to a faith school (cofE) but I know parents who send their kids to non faith schools because they object to daily prayer/faith assemblies/nativities/easter services etc. Each to their own.

I dont feel particularly marginalised. I do feel mocked however, increasingly so. You just dont get comedians/writers/broadcasters mocking other faiths like they do chrsitianity. I dont know why that is.

Seeker: you clearly missed this.

"I dont feel particularly marginalised. I do feel mocked however, increasingly so. You just dont get comedians/writers/broadcasters mocking other faiths like they do chrsitianity. I dont know why that is."

Some do. However, most of the comedians and so on in this country grew up in Britain where Christianity is the majority religion. Most will come from a Christian background. So obviously they make jokes about what they know. Comedians from the ethnic minorities make jokes about their backgrounds too, but there just aren't very many of them.

seeker The only one I know who tackles/mocks all religions is Tim Minchin - if you havent heard "10 foot cock and 300 virgins" I recommend it!!!

But that's not discriminating against Christians. It's saying that unless openly wearing a particular symbol is a tenet your faith, like a turban or a yarmulke, then you can't wear it. And wearing a cross is not a requirement of being a Christian. So the no jewellery ban holds in the case of the BA employee and the nurse.

Hands off Tim Minchin- he's mine!

Marcus Brigstock is an equal opportunities comedian too.

I LOVE Tom Minchin. Back off bitch

Cant stand Simon Amstell though