Christians being discriminated against...

[Snorbs]

...says Lord Carey of Clifton, a man who was elevated to the House of Lords because he is a Christian.

He wrote to the European Court of Human Rights because he feels that Christians in the UK are being "vilified" by the British courts, as evidenced by the (very small) number of people who have been sacked for ignoring their employment contracts expressing their faith. He goes on:

In a country where Christians ... are in fear of reprisal or even arrest for expressing their views on sexual ethics, something is very wrong.

Or, to put it more succinctly, "How dare you suggest we should follow the law about not discriminating against gay people".

The ban applies to all staff for good reason. It's not discriminatory.

Where in the Bible does it say that all Christians need to wear a crucifix?

'But she didn't have to choose between her job and her faith, did she?'

Jinsel, you don't understand her, but that doesn't make her wrong. I would have done what "computer said no" told me to do and I would have kept drawing my wage, but she was made of sterner stuff, her principles were more profound, she was less "progressive" than me.

So are you saying that it's impossible to be a practising Christian if you do not wear a crucifix at all times?

Wishing to express one's faith in a particular way is not the same as being allowed to practise it.

Not at all.
But where is teh harm? Where is the love?
When did this new thinking come into force and under which government? Is the same thinking in force across Europe too? Do other health services and airlines across Europe enforce the same policies and if not why not, if it is about "health and safety" and not being grabbed by patients?

So do you believe that the "no necklace" rule was introduced specifically to prevent Christians from wearing crosses?

'So a good phlebologist working for patients has had to go - "computer said no".

And what is so sad is that people think that is just fine, if a good phlebologist didn't want to lose her job, then she shouldn't have committed the crime.

Thing is, these 'persecuted Christians' always turn out to be fuckwitted, attention-seeking shitbags who have been harassing and annoying their colleagues for some considerable time. Keep your silly fucking superstitions out of the workplace or get the sack, simple enough. Plenty of people who are daft enough to believe in gods manage to function perfectly well in the workplace and the wider world without having to make a constant fuss about it to the detriment of other people, it's just a handful of silly wankers causing all the trouble.

'So do you believe that the "no necklace" rule was introduced specifically to prevent Christians from wearing crosses?'

I would like to know if the "no necklace" rules exists in other European countries. Does anybody know?

She can't have been much cop at her job if she was that much of a whinyarse. Bet she was a total PITA with the patients, too.

it is not a requirement of being a christian to wear a cross or crucifx personally I never wear either and would not, but some would say that islam does not say that you need hijab others says it does require it but the hospital or whatever management does not decide "the hijab is not a requirement of islam therefore you can't wear it"

for some christians wearing a crucifix is as important to them as wearing a hijab they would never take it off

if the hospital can work around hijabs etc, also it seems in some hospitals the no sleeves below elbow does not apply to some staff as they say their religion requires arms to be covered to wrist so i can see why some christians feel the rules are most stricly applied to them than others

'She can't have been much cop at her job if she was that much of a whinyarse. Bet she was a total PITA with the patients, too.'

Blimey, solid. A progressive Kafkaesque state would love you, they would snap you up to enforce their rules and ride roughshod over the beliefs and liberties of the whinyarses.

Ok claig, what do yuan think the rule should be changed to?

1. Necklaces are banned, except for this one person's.
2. Necklaces are banned, unless they have a crucifix on them.
3. Necklaces are banned, unless it's a matter of your personal faith that you wear one.
4. Necklaces are not banned at all under any circumstances.

As for what's changed over the last few years regarding infection control, do you not remember all the stories in the press about MRSA being frighteningly common in hospital wards and the introduction of anti-bacterial handwash dispensers in hospital corridors?

Yes, I've heard about MRSA. But what are our MRSA rates compared to France, Germany, Spain, Italy and Poland? Anyone got the figures?

What do other European countries do about the "necklace" issue in hospitals or airlines? Do they have the same bans or are we blazing new ground in a progressive brave new world?

Sunnywithachanceofshowers - my favourite Christian joke is;

What's the difference between a Catholic priest, and acne?
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At least acne waits until you're in your teens before it comes all over your face.

I don't know what the health & safety rules are in different countries, I'm afraid. But I don't believe that the "no necklace" rule was brought in specifically to stop Christians from wearing crosses.

I assume that there are many rules regarding health & safety that differ from one country to the next. That doesn't mean that they have been introduced for sinister reasons.

Well, I'm no fan of Lord Carey of Clifton, but he is a clever man and he has written to the European Court of Human Rights, no less, so maybe he thinks that all is not roses in this green and pleasant land.

Guilty larf @ bruxeur

The following joke was voted the best religious joke of all time by Ship of Fools, a Christian website.

"Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative?Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over."

He hasn't just written to parishioners, but to practitioners of law at the highest level. Something's bugging him, there's talk of "hugging a hoodie" and banning a cross.

Bit like winning Best German Joke of all time, isn't it?

MRSA rates I should think would show a strong correlation with occupancy rates in hospital. Since our hospital occupancy rates are insanely high I would imagine our MRSA rates are also higher. Little to do with crucifixes.

Anyway, doctors' pens are as much a vector for disease as necklaces I would imagine.

No-one if French public life is allowed to sport visible signs of religion. This has nothing to do with discrimination- it applies to every religion. This is because the French republic was founded as a secular entity, entirely separate from the church (it was a political move at the time- the French Catholic church was also monarchist and preached and taught same). This legislation has since been applied to certain cultural Islamic customs such as wearing of the hijab and niqab, to widespread furore and incomprehension in the UK.

I would however mention that the murder spree in Toulouse is an isolated event. France has not yet produced any disenfranchised gangs of young men willing to blow themselves up in the name of Allah on rush hour trains. The potential is there, but it just hasn't happened yet. Maybe this is due to widespread secularism and the fact that almost every child in France goes to public State school?

'No-one if French public life is allowed to sport visible signs of religion.'

Yes, that is political to maintain a secular state, as far as I understand it. So health and safety is not part of it.

I don't kow, but are there such things as catholic hospitals or care homes? It seems that there are in America from a quick google. If so, can nuns wear a cross in these hospitals or care homes or is that not allowed due to health and safety?

Also in our hospitals, are patients allowed to wear a cross or is that also a "health and safety" hazard to other pateints in a ward? Or is that a ruling yet to come?

The claim that the no necklace rule targets Christians specifically is simply ludicrous!

And so is the complaint that Christians "are in fear of reprisal or even arrest for expressing their views on sexual ethics" for that matter.

Nobody is saying that Christians are not entitled to be as ridiculously bigoted as humanly possible if that is what they wish to be. They're just no longer allowed to impose their personal superstitions on everybody else.

As an atheist I am quite frankly not the least bit interested in what the imaginary Christian god supposedly has to say about my sexual habits. Or about anything else I say, think or do.

If not being able to dictate the rules by which everybody has to live counts as persecution nowadays I hereby declare myself a lifelong victim thereof.

There's never yet been a 'persecuted Christian' bringing a case who didn't turn out to be an arsehole. Because the majority of Christians in the UK (as in, people who believe in the divinity of Jesus and go to church sometimes and say prayers and all the rest of the harmless nonsense that makes up Christianity as opposed to the harmful stuff like homophobia, misogyny, racism and sectarianism) can get along with other people and do not make pests of themselves over their superstition, so they don't get into trouble at work.

I've not ever been discriminated against.

Most people seem to assume I am not religious though and are surprised if I say I am. And a bit awkward. But that's the extent of it. Meh.