Saadia,Monkeytrousers and Peacedove...looking forward greatly to your comments on Abu Hamza's conviction.o

[moondog]

'Who said to you that you own Britain, anyway? Britain belongs to Allah." And just to make clear what he thinks of the British, he continued: "If I go to the jungle, I am not going to live like the animals. I'm going to propagate what I believe to be a superior way of life."

Whose PD?
Hamza's????

yes, Hamza's

I agree PD,but it seems they are available for public perusal..
Last night Hamza's sermons were available to be ordered from the internet.

Amongst the titles are
Victory of Bin Laden
Meeting the angel of death
Blessed hijacking
The only way to Khilafah

Do you think the press are exagerrating the danger he poses or do you think he doesn't pose any threat at all.Genuinely interested in your opinion..
It makes me half laugh half cry when I read about it.

could you call Abu a 'civil'-ian? [rolls eyes]

It seems incredibly stupid to me that a person who wants to etablish a terrorist organisation and carry out terrorist acts would take such a high profile position, and have the incriminating evidence so clearly in his offices and residence, especially when the police and MI5 have called him regularly and told him that he would be fine if blood did not flow in the streets.

SMaybe he was recruiting for Jihadi organisations, but then my original question arises. Why is it terrorism now to work for Jihadis, when it was actively encouraged against the Soviets in Afghanistan?

I think more will come to light. If there are any websites that are purported to be based on his thoughts and sermons, perhaps we could get links to these, and read what he has actually said.

That blanket bit about the Jews etc. i just plain wrong, but what else has he said, and I want to read it in context.

Well do agree with you on the first bit to some extent,but hey,people are dumb right?

The second point is valid too.
But hasn't that always been the case?

(When we lived in Russia,taught English to a businessman who had fought in Afghanistan. he had some amazing and dreadful tales to tell.)

Will you do a search for Hamza's sermons or shall I PD???

Well, if you can provide links. The press keeps saying the terrorist sites being monitored etc. but what are these terrorist sites? What are the sites where this material is available?

I suspect he may have thought he was immune. But yes, it does seem odd that he went out of his way to be noticed by the media.

Blimey,there's some wacky stuuf out there!
(And plenty of reasonable stuff as well it must be said.)

Supporters of Shariah website seems to be closed but I do believe I have found Mr Hamza's shopping list

Sorry. Was having a weary moment. Couldn't work out why everyone was so keen to prove that well-known nutters, not backed by any serious British Muslim body (including MN-ers) were .....nutters.

I'd love to check out

'Greetings to Kaffirs on their holy days'

and

'The role of women in Jihad'

At the risk of being dim, what is a kaffir? I've only heard this in connection with South Africans. Didn't they refer to black people as kaffirs? Is Hamza using the same terminology?

Rhubarb, re the mutany sperm of Catholic Priests. I have a vague memory that Roy Hatterly is the son af an ex RC priest . Proof if any were ever needed for your thesis.

An interesting quote from dr Siddiqui, head of the muslim parliment in the UK

'Abu Hamza was an embarrasment to the Muslim community, both in what he did and what he said. Although time in prison is a very painful experience, the Muslim reaction will be that he brought misery on himself'

kaffir = non muslim

Ah. Sort of like gentiles for Jews. I'd never heard that usage before.

That's mumsnet. You learn something new every day.

and from that list of tapes....it is very obvious that from his latter actions he seemed to learn nothing from the Hajj at all.

Saadia, PD, I tried to CAT you but coudn't. Could you CAT me?

Good to see you back Paps! Breath of fresh Swiss air!

1. Is it just the likes of Abu Hamza you object to or do you also condemn the activities of Far Right parties here in the UK and Europe ? You seem to be an advocate of free speech (re. the cartoons in Denmark), but do you think that UK legislation should have a tougher stance on right wing extremists, including the Far Right parties, even though this might infringe on their freedom of speech ?

I don't know whether you saw my thread re. the BNP, but do you think that BNP leaders should be imprisoned for race hate crimes perpetrated against Muslims and other religious and ethnic groups ? Recently the trial of 2 of them collapsed, but we are hoping for a retrial.

2. Why did you chose particular names to pose your question to ? There appear to be 1,000's of people on this website, I just wanted to know what is the relevance of those 3 names in the title to this thread ?

sorry - my questions are addressed to MOONDOG.

nannah,
FWIW, I think that it a great shame that th BNP 'got away with' their acts IYSWIM. There were justged not to have incited racial hatread, which I think is a highly debatable judgement.

I feel that people do have a right to free speach, but that stops short , under UK law, of incitement to hatred and violence.

AH, was , IMHO, guilty of both these things, and deserves his prison sentence.

Shame they didn't make th BNP charges stick

MB - there will be a retrial. The CPS will try to make it stick this time.

as they say, 'from your lips, to god's ear'

I think that these men a vile.