Longer school day and shorter holidays, proposes Gove

[Morebiscuitsplease]

I cannot understand this man. Children need time out, teachers also need time to prepare and mark work, when do either get this with such proposals? We complain our children are obese yet suggest more time in school. I do not want any child of mine going to school for 7.30 and finishing at 5. They need time to play, pursue other activities and do homework. Your thoughts please!

You said "I don't give a flying f**k about working parents and their needs sorry".

Sometimes the needs of children are heavily dependent on their parents being able to work.

I think we both know I meant in relation to this issue and I still don't -sorry. They are 2 separate issues.

Well, I know what you mean now...

School is not childcare, but it is unrealistic to pretend there is no relationship between school hours, holidays and the ability of parents to take paid work. Or the impact, one way or the other , on parents ability to work. The government know this. Ans in any case, as I understand it the long summer holidays were actually introduced to allow children to undertake hard labour bringing in the harvest! So there has always been a link.

Sorry as I said before the needs of children need to come first and parents second.

There is no justification whatsoever for parents needs to come first.If the gov wants to start basing education policies on the needs of working parents then I'm afraid they need to be honest and say children's needs are going to come second (yet again).

We've already got huge levels of childhood unhappiness.

The children really really need those half term breaks, they're really tired by then. It also give the teachers some time to plan for the next half term, which means the teaching stays at a high level of quality.

There is nothing wrong with the current holiday system in terms of how children deal with them and their learning, ime and imo.

The short one week ones are good for refreshing the children.
The longer breaks are good for that complete break, and to let families spend time together too.
The long summer break - children can really wind down, have a complete breather, take time to do other stuff, let families holiday, etc.

Independent schools have even longer holidays and cope just fine.

In other countries the schools often have even longer holidays and cope fine.

You know, school is about what is right for the children. They don't need to be there all day every day for every week of the year. They need a balance.

As for if suiting working parents - well, that is a choice you make when you chose to have children really. The holidays are no surprise, they've been like it for a long time now.

This is a childcare issue not a school and children issue. The two are different. Fine - of there is the need for longer childcare - then look at that. But school is not childcare.

In Ireland the summer holidays are 9 weeks long in primary school and 13 weeks long in secondary school. In spite of that Ireland is considered to have an excellent education system.

I don't think Gove's proposals have anyhting too do with childcare tbh.

He shares the view with many on the lft that if you take children from difficult backgrounds/environments/areas and keep them in school for longer then those DC will thrive better...as they do in KIPP schools.

Also, eductionalists are looking east and taking note of what's happening in China et al...

Sooooooo a minority will better off(highly debatable) and many will be worse off-great!

Given that research suggests high pressured children are more prone to anxiety and depression I do hope Gov gives a little thought to the needs of the majority of children in this country when he looks East for inspiration.

'do you work?or are you speaking as housewife who is not inconvenienced in any way'

I don't do paid work but have lots of other stuff going on. And there are sacrifices either way whether you work or stay home. Part of the reason I stay home is so not to worry about childcare. I used to work but we then worked it so that one of us is always at home most the time. We are lucky but also make choices that mean we can do so. Not everyone has a choice of course. There is already out of school care for working parents. If that needs looking at then so be it. However, many people want to work less and not more when their kids are little.

In any case, why inconvienience all those 'housewives' by messing up them being able to pick up their kids at 3? As has been said, school is not childcare!If I went back to work I would put my kids in a fun after school club or with a nice childminder-not want them in school even longer!! Private schools may have longer days but often they have longer holidays or do homework etc.

Said private schools also have far smaller classes and less challenging kids so less exhausted teachers,nicer buildings and amazing after school clubs on site.The stuff my friends dd does as after school clubs eg proper ballet with a private teacher,sports,music etc is .

As far as I am concerned the average school day is already 3 or 4 hours too long (this is from someone who went to school from the age of 6 on the continent, started lessons at 7.45 and never finished later than 1.10). My dd (4.5) loves school but is totally exhausted by Wednesday and the rest of the week she copes fine at school but is tearful and prone to tantrums at home. Extending the school day seems completely ridiculous to me.

Goodasgold my do does work part time to balance my workload . I have not said that I have given up teaching although I will not teach for the rest of my working life - although I have not said that on this thread. I think I may have confused you when I said I cannot do anymore, not I cannot do teaching anymore.

Goodasgold I don't think we get piss poor money , as a middle manager I earn about 40k. Hardy a pittance.

I am a bit bemused by all these exhausted children in the UK. My experience of UK Primary ends when I left myself, in 1980. My experience in Belgium is entirely different. Is it because they start "proper" lessons too young, maybe?

I am not a housewife, nor have i ever been. I have worked in a variety if jobs since the age of 13. I am not lazy or workshy. Currently I am a teacher who leaves for work at 7am, dropping my 2 kids at the CM on the way. I pick them up at 4:30 ish. They are 4 and 2.

if i have to start teaching at 7, what ungodly hour do i drag my dc off to childcare? Who on earth would want to start caring for them then? Likewise, if i teach until 5, i will end up with maybe an hour before bed with them. Probably less, since i will be waking them up around 5

I can't afford on my salary to live where i work, so i commute. I am sure that people will now say well find a job elsewhere.

I am not trying to whinge, or be a martyr. I will work beyond directed time to do what i need to in order to do an excellent job; i am a professional. However extending contact time for me means possibly not seeing my children, beyond time in the car. I am having a tough time seeing how that is reasonable.

portofino yes, by about two years imo

what a load of bollocks...children are not mini-workers...they are attending school to learn and be taught by teachers who have enough time and scope to do their job...extending the school hours should not be about facilitating working parents ..is this about education??...I think not...this seems like an opportunity to keep parents in work as long as possible while the state raises our children during their formative years ..something is really wrong ..

what hysterical hyperbole mcp.the state is not so pervasive or influential as you'd like to suggest nor do they wield the power or influence to "raise" your child. You raise your child as the parent and significant emotional attachment and role model. The school,and teacher and state seek to influence and modify educational output,and influence behaviour.but as any teacher will tell you they can only work with what turns up,and the attitudes and values imbued at home.

and adjusting term time or altering contact time doesn't equate to state "raising your child". utter rot to suggest other wise frankly

Errr it does if you drop off your child at 8 and pick up at 5 and reduce holidays. Personally I think the school day is already too long for primary children.

aww..hysterical ..I love it!...my children could spend 8 hrs a day with another person who apparently has little or no influence over their behaviour,opinions, language,mind...strange but an adult can be influenced by spending this amount of time with other adults in a work force...I think to believe that the influence of another significant adult in your childs life 40hrs a week would not make an impact is utter rot...

but then...I'm just 'hysterical'

yep.and for millionth time don't exaggerate

BabyGiraffes. my dd was 6.5 when she started 1st Primary. I am pretty much prepared to bet that she is up with her UK peers in the 3Rs though.