Longer school day and shorter holidays, proposes Gove

[Morebiscuitsplease]

I cannot understand this man. Children need time out, teachers also need time to prepare and mark work, when do either get this with such proposals? We complain our children are obese yet suggest more time in school. I do not want any child of mine going to school for 7.30 and finishing at 5. They need time to play, pursue other activities and do homework. Your thoughts please!

I am not sure my dp would be happy at being called a housewife.

But Gove is talking about extending the school day not wrap around childcare, unless I have misread.

The cynic in me thinks that they want to cut childcare tax credits so they are trying to manipulate teachers into providing the childcare at no extra cost. It won't happen but does reveal the contempt in which Gove holds teachers.

The cynic in me thinks that they want to cut childcare tax credits so they are trying to manipulate teachers into providing the childcare at no extra cost. It won't happen but does reveal the contempt in which Gove holds teachers.

I think you're right!

I'm sad to see there are people who think Gove's right, though; namely working parents who see free it as childcare.

Kellogg, on the one hand you said it was such a full time job that your dp had to work pt. That must suck for xou. And then that you had to give it up because it was too much. There was something wrong there.

I personally think our teachers work hard enough, for piss poor little money. But I think this idea has come from Germany where they have people who have left school who can make trains.

I also see it from the parents who like spending time with their dcs, but in England there is the uniform culture, and why would you not help another dc?

get it right grandma.i dont want free childcare at school.i want good education and adequate hours offered within a time frame that accommodates the demands of working and working parents. long breaks, early finishes, inservice days and half term are all demands that need to be met .and its tricky. school has only just gone back,but there is a hol in mid February to accomodate.

so no dont start that ole teachers cliche of its not free childcare. thats not what i seek

certainly am not asking for free childcare, would like school hours that facilitate easier working hours, and provision of good quality after school provision. i have no expectation this is fulfilled by teachers,in fact best its not.more cost effective for activity or support worker to do this

scottishmummy, well we have that here - and it costs me about 40 euros per month. My dd really enjoys it. They play outside if it is dry or do activities indoors if not. She is a board game fiend - normally when I go to collect her it takes me ages to extricate her as she is in the middle of a game of monopoly or something. And homework is done and checked. The kids are not all sat there exhausted and miserable. No way will I move back to UK whilst dd is Primary age.

You make no sense, scottish mummy:

You said you were in favour of a longer school day in terms of childcare
Teachers pointed out that Michael Gove wants teachers to do this childcare, and explain why it wouldn't be feasible to childmind between 3.30 and 5.30 plan/assess/mark in the evenings since we already plan/assess/mark in the evenings.
You say stop being martyrs, everyone works hard?
Eh?

Goodasgold, I think you might be mixing Kellogg up with someone else, as far as I can tell from her posts she is still teaching. Sorry if that's incorrect Kellogg.

Scottishmummy no one would dispute that extra childcare would benefit working parents - that's a no-brainer. The problem is that Gove is proposing a longer school day with extra teaching, provided by teachers, not by care assistants. Teachers are arguing that it is just not possible for them to do this, as their days are already completely full. If it was introduced, the quality of teaching would go down considerably because teachers would have far too much planning, marking and paperwork for them to devote much time to actually developing effective lessons, prepare worksheets etc.

As others have said in recent posts, it seems pretty clear that Gove doesn't mean a word he says he is "proposing" this for a number of reasons:

1. If teachers object to it, they look lazy, which gives the government a better image in the pensions dispute.
2. It appeals to working parents, who are a large proportion of the vote
3. It makes him look like he cares about education, when it's pretty clear that he doesn't have a clue about it.

There's no money to implement this "proposal," it's as simple as that.

TBH Gove is not alone in these proposals, they were very much at the centre of Labour's eduction plans.

Remember Education, Educatio, Education?
Longer school days were always part of that agenda. The idea being that children with little support at home could have their lives turend around by more education.
The left have long supported this idea.
KIPP schools are a big driver for this theory.

The teaching unions saw off the policy when it was being argued by the left anf they will see it off now it is being argued by the right.

Personally, I think it is a poor idea whoever puts it forward but let's not pretend that this is a conservative attack on teachers.

feenie your summation is erroneous,but hey ho
i do pragmatically think the school day and school terms need revision and yes additional hours added to day. terms not as short.

i did opine the after school,could feasibly be done by activity workers (not qt as its too costly solely for after school)

also noted in Scotland nqt posts are like hens teeth, perhaps recruit nqt for additional workload in shortening term time

the rub is costing it of course. thats the bit grove hasn't revealed

i dont expect any worker to say can do to longer day and substantial change in t&c. but that doesnt mean additional other qt cannot be recruited for longer terms and classroom contact

i do not expect school to be childcare, i do hope fora revision of the term times, and contact times. as i said in service,half term,long holidays are a constant juggle. the kids are off again in feb and that needs to be accommodated by working parents

'I already accommodate 8-6. Childcare as do many working parents'

Then why would this help you if you already have it? Why do you so badly want others to have it?

In my school, most parents do not work 8-6 Monday to Friday but many work part time (mums and dads) or school hours. It seems a minority here for both parents to be out f/t hours everyday. For those who do, there is an excellent after school programme. Why make everyone's kids do those hours?

Could it be that there would be less guilt from SOME (a minority) working parents if their child was't the only one in school for such long hours? (Not talking to anyone specifically here just generally)

Yes those days (inset etc) are a PITA for working parents but that should be covered by out of school clubs and childcarers NOT teachers and extra school days. My DC have a life outside of school and we want to spend time with them!

I have nothing against keeping children busy and productive. Quite apart from the issue of teachers already having full on days (which I believe) and no room to give out more, most schools don't have the physical facilities to do all the activities that are good for children. I cannot think of anything more pointless, from an educational perspective, than shutting children up in classrooms for even more hours per day. What a limiting existence. Poor children. If working parents really think that extending the school day and the holidays would be a good idea because it would help them with childcare, I think those parents ought to have a good, hard think about why they had children in the first place.

Sorry I do not accept this is good for children.

I don't give a flying f**k about working parents and their needs sorry.

When did the needs of children become so inconsequential that they are pushed aside for the needs of adults.

Fine boost after school clubs in order to help working parents but forcing kids into longer hours just to save some parents some cash that is so wrong.

The fact is the current school day is more challenging than ever before,kids are young children.In a working day I'd be flagging by 5. What point does it serve keeping kids in school for that long?Also most teachers delivering to 30 young people until 5 are going to be shattered and understandably not delivering their best.I'd far rather have a shorter better quality day with children able to flop and recharge for the next day.

It's quality not quantity that is important.

it was suggested some conceptualize school as free childcare
not so
nursery sorted 8-6, can use 50wk year if required.

school terms imo are too short,too many breaks and require considerable planning to adequately cover. i do think term should be shorter, less breaks longer day. and if you dont need extended day then dont use after school

school went back Jan, thet have holiday in feb, and then easter break. lots of time off in quick sucession. i do favour a different term arrangement, imo less stop-start and shorter term and more class contact in shorter term is required

All 3 of my dc(8,8 and 7) need that Feb holiday.Teachers need that holiday.

The only people who don't need the holiday are working parents-sorry their needs should come 2nd to the needs of children however difficult it is to organise.

do you work?or are you speaking as housewife who is not inconvenienced in any way

The breaks in the school year are designed to refresh the children, scottishmummy. I agree that planning for school holidays takes an inordinate amount of time, but I do think that the type of activities that children do during the breaks from school are immensely beneficial; giving children the opportunity to focus a whole week or more on one activity brings them on in leaps and bounds.

Yes I do work,not much admittedly due to school holidays and childcare costs but sorry I refuse to think the needs of kids should be pushed to one side and be put second to the needs of working adults.It's wrong.

i think there could be a revision of how holidays are grouped in close succession. a semester calendar model perhaps

institutions and establishments like nhs, and education need to have ability to be responsive to change, societal demands and a revision of provision. just because something (like school terms) has always been done a certain way doesn't mean cannot change

i wholehearted agree bonsoir that children need a balanced life, a harmony of activity, structure and simply time to be children and age appropriate.thats not necessarily compromised by some adjustment to school terms or times

Not sure exactly what is wrong with terms as they are.

I will also say that, when I started planning our children's school holiday activities, I found it burdensome and difficult. The information is not easy to come by and my own skills and childhood experience were of limited use to me. However, many years on and it has become a lot easier. The beneficiary is of course DD, as I have tried and tested all the possible combinations out on the DSSs first . My greatest takeaway is to share all the information and experiences with other parents like crazy, in the hope that they will share all their best addresses with you in turn!

We are now so organised that we were able to book and pay for three weeks of camp for next summer for DD and DSS2 in early October. And, if truth be told, it takes a huge weight off all of our minds when everything is sorted far in advance.

SM whenever I see the school callender I must admit I do a double take. Barely back into school and they're off again.

That said, when those hildays come around my DC are always desperate for them. We have those long days Mr Gove advocates. 8.15-4.45pm often a club/training session or match therafter. Then homework. High academic standards. Lots of tests and exams.

Even though it is often a bugger that they are off again, if I'm being scrupulously honest the DC do need it.

certainly heard radio suggestion of semester style terms.
more evenly grouped more evenly spaced out terms to replace current terms

I work f/t, and even though covering holidays is a mega juggling act i still do not support shortening the hols or lengthening the school day.

But Heffley - have you really never come across a household where a working parent puts a roof over the child's head and the needs of the adults, in that sense, are rather important? Or in your vision will all families who cannot manage to house, feed and clothe thier children without working, or to cover holidays unless they give up work, be supported by the state?

I don't get your post Blu.

The needs of children should come first and the design of the school day/ term should be dealing with the needs of children first and parents second.

School is not childcare it's school.The two are completely separate and different therefor basing terms/length of day on what is best for working parents is completely wrong.

Look at the needs of working parents but deal with it as a separate issue.