Longer school day and shorter holidays, proposes Gove

[Morebiscuitsplease]

I cannot understand this man. Children need time out, teachers also need time to prepare and mark work, when do either get this with such proposals? We complain our children are obese yet suggest more time in school. I do not want any child of mine going to school for 7.30 and finishing at 5. They need time to play, pursue other activities and do homework. Your thoughts please!

There is no money at all. Some posters are suggesting that this isn't a bad proposal when what they are commenting on is not the proposal at all.

Well said!

I'm sure nobody will be complaining when the quality of lessons deteriorates as teachers have had no time to plan them... Hey ho though; Gove can sack us within a term and then not give us a pension so it doesn't matter too much!

Not clear what age these proposals would apply to but I guess I could see some merit in a 9-5.00 school day for older children. However, I would want more careful thought as to what went into this longer school day.

My children are only at primary school so I cannot comment on what the NC looks like at secondary level. However, my experience so far as that a disproportionate amount of the day is spent on things which should be dealt with outside of school - moral, social and ethical issues which are my job as a parent to deal with. As a result, insufficient time is spent on core skills such as numeracy and literacy and things such as history and geography barely get a look in. I think a review of the content of the school day should take place before any review of the length.

It may be argued that if schools don't cover these social issues some parents won't. That may be true, but as we have taken the responsibility away from them entirely, how can we tell?

Millions of children failing in school?

In my borough which has way more than it's fair share of challenge and scores highly on every index of deprivation that undermines educational achievement, the children in the schools are gebnerally doing v well. National average or mostly above national average - again in a borough where the average deprivation and social exclusion is much higher than national average. The school are improving steadily, and continuing to improve.

The young people who are failing educationally and creating an antisocial nuisance are the children who are not in school anyway. In PRUs, underfunded young offender projects or truanting.

We all know that children who are motivated, interested in their own lives and welll supported at home do well in school - in the existing school hours.

To pick up those who are inadequately parented (sadly including by those let down by the education of a generation ago) and have no sense of self motivation surely the answer is to address that factor? Create and support more targetted projects for those excluded from or not thriving in mainstream education, give them effective mentors, support more opportunities and support in the community. And yet in Lambeth, due to the cuts, the youth Service is being decimated, voluntary sector projects with an impressive track record in tackling gang membership and working with NEET youth to get them into educatuion, jobs and training are being dismantled and slashed .

And when the rest of the young people are kept in school until 5pm at the governments expense, the young people engaged in these projects will not be sitting in school alongside them.

Utterly illogical, and with little reference to the real world.

Michael Gove, please come and live and work in Lambeth and see what actually happens before you make these plans.

GooseyLoosey - I'm not sure what your children's timetable is like but at the school I was last in, literacy ran from 9-11 (split into writing and reading) and then maths ran from 11:15-12. There is no possible way we could have done more than that - those subjects are very heavy for the children and we would just be flogging a dead horse as they don't have the concentration to manage longer lessons than that. We have to tailor the teaching to the children's capabilities rather than just teaching regardless of their ability to actually learn. Other topics such as PSHE are equally as important as literacy and numeracy in my view as they give children the opportunity to explore more intellectual issues such as right and wrong, social responsibility etc. I for one don't want my child to just be drilled in academics, I also want them to have a chance to debate real-world issues and develop their thinking skills.

Well said, Blu and thanks for your knowledgeable contributions to the thread.

It's great to know people like you are working with young people who really need it. Keep up the good work :)

I'm going to give Gove the benefit of the doubt and say he does genuinely think this proposal will improve standards...but personally I think he has got things arse about tit.

He's done the classic tory thing of looking to the private sector, seeing how they do things differentlt there and trying to import it int the public sector.

Oh, he says, those independent schools do well and they have really long days. Right then...

Well yes, Mr Gove, but they have the resources to spend during those long days...

Oh, he says, those independent schools do well and they have really long days. Right then..

Don't these independent schools also have really long holidays though...!? He can't have it both ways!

Has anyone typed "Gove is" into Google yet? Google predictor finishes it off nicely.
:)

letseat yes indeed they do.

And their standards are high due to a whole complex set of reasons. They can't just be dupicated by the state. And you certainly can't just dip in and take one small factor and expect it to have the desired impact.

I agree with wordfactory that it is impossible (ludicrous, even) to isolate one facet of the independent education sector that is different to the maintained sector, and import it across the board into the maintained sector, in isolation, and hope standards will improve.

Small classes, multiple specialist teachers, state-of-the-art infrastructure, pupil selection are all things that the state sector can sadly never have across the board and that make a massive collective difference to the outcomes of pupils in the private sector.

Yes, independent schools do have longer days - DD starts at 8:30am and finishes at 3:45pm (she's in juniors). Two days a week she starts at 8am for support lessons. However she also has a play time in both the morning and afternoon, and a longer lunch time than many of our local state schools. And she has 3-4 weeks more holidays than the state schools too.

The wrap around care is better in that is starts from 7:45am and finishes at 5:30pm, or 6pm if having tea. However, this is paid for in addition to fees and is run by support staff, not teachers.

The clubs after school run til 5:15pm generally and many are free. But they are restricted in numbers and it relies very much on teachers doing these. Where external companies/individuals are used there is a cost.

Scorpion Queen...

Gove is right

"
He's done the classic tory thing of looking to the private sector, seeing how they do things differentlt there and trying to import it int the public sector."

you have noticed that Tony Blairs government proposed similar things, but were forced to back down by the teaching unions (see my earlier link)

i predict the same outcome if this gets pushed, incidentally. i think the idea is shite, younger kids are tired by 3-3.30 - older ones need the time to get their homework done -

i want them to have a long summer holiday to really free their minds from school, and personally i think quality is more important than quantity in terms of lesson time.

you lot are all so gullible! You have fallen hook, line and sinker for a really bad piece of journalism designed solely to get people up in arms. If you actually look into this there is very little chance that Gove wants to implement this, just that he likes the KIPP system in America. Use your brains folks! You are relying on what Gove is reported by the, ahem, Huffington Post, to have said on, ahem Daybreak...
They are relying on teachers having a chip on their shoulder at the moment to get people really angry.

The Education Secretary actually said this on a popular daytime programme.

But it's everyone else's fault for believing it?

Agree with feenie (again!)
He was filmed on TV, with the actual words coming out of his mouth and everything! But we're gullible?

I think he said something like "everyone is agreed on the desirability of a longer school day" and my guess is that was an allusion to the shadow Ed Sec's speech earlier in the week where he also spoke in favour of it.

So with all the major parties looking positively at the idea, might it become a policy, rather than just an inchoate aspiration?

And who, exactly, is this "everyone" who is agreed on lengthening the school day?

Fantastic boost for working parents
If you're housewife it's no odds to you what school hours are,as youre not actually working .but it's significant for working parents and potentially facilities easier planning. Doesn't need be teachers do the after school, o holidays, certainly could be enhanced crb activity workers

According to Mr Gove, it does have to be the teachers. Which suggests he doesn't fancy paying for it.

Well plenty nqt no jobs in Scotland,maybe you'd get takers..
IMO,the wrap round aspect eg breakfast club and after school doesn't need to be qt

But someone would have to pay those NQTs, scottishmummy. There is no planned budget for this, which is why extending the hours of existing teachers must sound so attractive to the Education Secretary.

Of course pay the nqt,allow some modicum of progression and accrue hours worked and opportunity to work in chosen field. Longer school day,shorter terms are fantastic idea

For who?

All 3 of my dc would really struggle with longer days.How much would actually go in after 3.30.It would be pointless them being there.

Children are children-they get tired,or would they just not be allowed to?

Please don't say this will become enforced without any actual research or evidence into it actually benefitting the children!!?