Longer school day and shorter holidays, proposes Gove

[Morebiscuitsplease]

I cannot understand this man. Children need time out, teachers also need time to prepare and mark work, when do either get this with such proposals? We complain our children are obese yet suggest more time in school. I do not want any child of mine going to school for 7.30 and finishing at 5. They need time to play, pursue other activities and do homework. Your thoughts please!

I think it's a marvellous idea and should be rolled out in all schools immediately. I'm sick of having to spend a rushed hour with dd after school before we start the dinner/bath/bed thing. She could spend that time falling asleep on a desk instead. Plus think of the knock on effect for public transport. DD leaves home at 7.45am on the earliest available bus atm. Putting on another bus should be rather straighforward and cheap I should imagine.

chickensaregreen: he was talking in favour of it when, from KIPP evidence, it was indeed having a beneficial effect.

But he hasn't really been saying it for over a year because of two factors - further evidence from KIPP and implacable commentary pointing out the differences between KIPP environments and UK.

I'm a school governor and from what I see, teachers already work extremely long hours - just not all of them in front of a whiteboard. I do think ds's primary chucks out v. early, though, at 3pm.

3pm for primary seems a long enough day to me.

I was very glad to learn that the school I hope to send DD1 to in September finishes at 2pm for the first 3 years.

I think it's a terrible idea. Most children are tired enough after a school day that finishes at 3.30 - 4. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad for secondary age children if they were not given any homework, but to expect them to finish at 5 and then do homework would be ridiculous. When will they then find time to do all the other hobbies/activities which make them into interesting people?

Also, if all schools finish at 5, the roads will be evn busier than they currently are at that time of day with many people at work finishing at the same time.

If the summer holidays are cut shorter then even more people will be trying to book holidays for the same weeks, resulting in less choice and higher prices.

Feenie - why the ?

That was my life at boarding school and I LOVED it!

Yeah - I bet they had fagging when you were at school aswell, MoreBeta!

I would like to see my ds occasionally before bedtime.

If this comes in.

I wonder if my wages will increase?

decent graduates will be falling over themselves to get into teaching

Gove should take a tour of an infant school at about 2pm on a Thursday or Friday. What he'll see is a bunch of absolutely worn out children who have zero concentration and a frazzled teacher trying to keep their attention. I don't see the point of pushing and pushing tired little children to the very limit. I always feel so sorry for year 1s and 2s at the end of the week - they are just running on empty and end up getting in trouble because they are irritable and unreasonable. Teachers usually try to turn a blind eye to bad behaviour when the know it's due to tiredness but it can be very hard especially if the behaviour is disrupting the class. That leads to even normally well-behaved children attracting sanctions and ending up in tears. It's just a mess.

At least in year R you can have a wind down in the afternoon and just allow them to play or read a story but in a lot of schools, if children come home and say they were playing a game or listening to a story in Year 1 or 2 then you'll have parents beating a path to your door demanding to know why you're slacking. If the children had to be pushed through even more hours of school I think it would turn even more children off education. I don't get the mentality that seems to be rife nowadays that everyone has to be on the go all the time. Children are small, they need plenty of food, exercise and rest. Forcing them to sit still in a stuffy classroom goes against their inquisitive and energetic nature as it is. If you force them to do even more of that it's just cruel I think.

Boneyback I wondered about that - they'll have to change teachers terms and conditions to extend the school year surely - but not necessarily to extend the school day I don't think.

sounds typical, a good way to get people back into full time work. I don't send my child to school for free childcare. I send them to school to learn and grow. They don't need to be there for so long to do that. I had child to raise myself not have the state do it for me so I can pay more tax.

actually, it may not necessitate a change to the teachers' t&c - presumably the extra time could come from directed time, without needing to amend legislation

this would mean that time which is now used for teaching tasks but which are also non-contact (planning, marking, training, meetings, parents' evenings, reporting) may be reduced to accomodate the increase in the length of the school day

i am not 100% sure, but does academy status mean that schools are not bound by the t&c? if so, this would certainly enable schools to do whatever they want in this regard.

huzzah.

I wondered that about academies. I know of one where teachers are working a longer day than non-academies. One of the reasons why I am very wary of academies.

The KIPP schools, on which all this is based, is a secondary school programme.

Feenie - I just think we have such low expectations of what children can and should do in a school day. I would not support sitting in lessons all day from 9 - 5 but certainly a good mix of academic work in the morning, some physical activity in the afternoon and some drama/arts and some time for homework in a quiet well ordered environment as well as some play of course and some breakfast and a light tea.

I think there's a lot of truth in that Beta - the structure of the school day in many schools is very rigid and involves mainly sitting at desks.

But MoreBeta, why must all those things happen as part of the school day?

When you were at boarding school, school was both home and school.

People who choose day schooling presumably want their children to fill their days with things other than school, or school-based activities.

Doing lots in the day doesn't mean doing it all at school (whatever it is) and enforcing longer school hours reduces flexibility and the ability of parents and children to figure out the right combination of activities and rest for them.

.....'some breakfast and a light tea'....

We haven't even got a kitchen at our school!

Who would be involved in preparing this breakfast and light tea, morebeta? In fact, what is 'light tea'? (My state education didn't cover that.)

If this is a serious proposition, I think we should strike.

I don't want my dc at school any longer than they are, particularly ds, who hates school. Six hours a day is plenty.

some physical activity in the afternoon and some drama/arts and some time for homework in a quiet well ordered environment as well as some play of course and some breakfast and a light tea.

But I am a teacher, MoreBeta. According to Mr Gove, the above would be my job. That's not teaching.

Exactly Feenie. What MoreBeta is talking about is babysitting. If schools want to get babysitters in then let them, if they can afford it.