Did I just hear this right? Is Michael Gove blaming bullying on teachers and sayng the answer is to be able to sack them more easily?

[OhBuggerandArse]

On Today just now.

Oh how I loathe him.

Panfriedstardust granted but I dare say more than 28 policeman have been sacked in the last 40 years

Maypole - I'm not so sure that the police, nurses, doctors, firemen, and the army get targeted and booted out for incompetence? I work in the NHS and jobs seem pretty safe in there on the whole - I've rarely seen anyone booted out.

Ok, here goes

I really don't understand why teaching unions are so up in arms about this. Poor teachers can destroy a childs only hope of a decent education - even more so if they are from a "chaotic" backgroud. (This seems to be the euphemism of choice at the moment for lousy parenting). Teaching is just too important to allow bad teaching to continue.

I am no fan of much of what this government does and I have more than a little sympathy with teachers over the pensions issue but on this one I think Gove is absolutely right.

Unless more is done to improve failing schools (and poor teaching is, presumably, a huge part of why they are failing - no?) then more children, particularly those from a poor background, will have the only escape route open to them slammed shut in their faces.

yes, lots of police have been sacked...but also lots been allowed to retire on spurious grounds...incomptency by another word...

so what's your profession?

Animation form that comment I can tell you DON'T work for the nhs

Doctors and nurses have a public on line site were their mister meaners and dates of offences and punishment can be viewed on line

My oh is a nurse and we often o on and have look they range form warnings to sackings for incompetence

And their are more than 18 I can tell you

Also:

"Can we please go into the MP's offices and the House and watch them, and if they are incapable, sack them within a term?"

Yep - isn't ths the purpose of an election?

ah so maypole's profession is " loud-mouthed-no-substance-internet-warrior".

ok. Just so's we know.

"Animation form that comment I can tell you DON'T work for the nhs"

What a bizarre thing to say.!!

I work in the NHS.

I have rarely come across any sackings in my Trust.

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating I don't agree with that part that's a bit hmmm but the rest

A teacher would only be against this if They were the poor performing teacher

Why would any teacher want to work with somone who clearly not suited to teaching

Antlers, I see your point but the opposition is made up of elected MP's. As for the representative democracy argument - I believe we voted in a referendum to keep what we had.

Animation if you did you would know about the site and know that nurses and doctors are punsished on line so all can see nurses not so much doctors are often dismissed

Maypole - what is this public site where NHS workers are seen to be punished?

I do work in the NHS.

Any way I believe animation and a few others are actally argueing to keep on bad teachers or make it harder to sack them which of course is a silly position. To take

Trouble is..there is no category for dismissal as 'incompetent', in any profession. It's too value-laden and open to interpretation. We call it something else, usually. Sometimes 'capability' but that also relies on good management and individual governance being applied to individuals re performance. It's a tricky area to preside over.

but still...what, maypole, is your profession, from which lauded position you decree??

I work for the nhs just like animation

I don't like bad teachers as much as anybody else - or bad MPs bad nurses, bad doctors, bad police, bad firemen, bad administrators.....

I don't like how the government are making a big deal about teachers though - and singling them out.

Who would advise their kids to go into teaching? I'd tell mine to run a mile! National scapegoat - human equivalent of kicking the cat. Can't wait for all those incompetent masters of finance to be sacked, what with the private sector being so efficient - so many lessons to learn from them

"National scapegoat - human equivalent of kicking the cat."

That's the truth!

And single mothers and immigrants as well....

maypole - I belive you. No, really.

He is the head of education what SHOUD be his piorty fishing lol

One would hope the education mission is to raise the standards of teachers but animation clearly thinks the education head ad no bunisess sort teaching out which him being the head of eduction is is job or course

I'm a teacher and I agree that incompetent teachers should be sacked - who wants a crap teacher/colleague? However, as other people have said there are some schools where the senior management bully their underlings (I'm in one now) and you have to be extremely careful - if you publicly disagree with one of their diktats they will make your life so miserable that you are forced out.

The question is, where do these terrible teachers come from? Why aren't they weeded out before they get a job? The answer is the training establishments. I used to be a mentor for trainee teachers and my goodness some of the students I had to mentor were awful. Two in particular stood out - they were on a course that enabled them to do a foundation course, get a degree AND a teaching qualification in only 3 years. I was ! Neither of them had a relevant A-level (and I'm a secondary science teacher, it's not like you can bluff it - you either understand it or you don't) and you only had to talk to them for 5 minutes to realise that they shouldn't really have been accepted onto the course. After 9 weeks of being patient, coping with their total lack of subject knowledge, inadequate social skills, poor personal hygiene and snooping, I failed them on their placement. I didn't enjoy doing this but they failed my inner test of 'Would I want this person let lose on my own children?' I wasn't personally prejudiced btw, they had two other teachers observe them who concurred with my assessment.

Next thing I know they're doing another placement, have somehow passed and are now looking for jobs. Scary stuff. I suspect that like everyone else in education, the training colleges can't be seen to fail and so pass terrible candidates.

I love the idea of Gove being forced to do a PGCE! He genuinely seems to despise all teachers so it would be interesting to see him try to cope with 30 arsey, lazy, low ability pupils. Would he manage good or outstanding every lesson? When he's had no break because he's had to supervise detention, hasn't been to the loo in 4 hours, has had a child give them some horrible verbal abuse yet not been backed up by senior management and just broken up a fist fight? I rather suspect he'd run away and hide instead...