Diane Abbott....racist comment or not?

[festi]

I think If you look and consider what she said in the context of the discussuion she was having. I believe she has a very valid point, she did make a generalised remark and by definition that was racist, but, it was in my opinion acceptable for her to generate discussion and break down the barriers that exist (the fear of counter accusations of racism) in discussuing the exposure openly.

Ok, if she can't be racist because racism = prejudice + power (a statement with which I profoundly disagree) I assume we can all agree that someone paid by the tax payer to represent her constituents (who presumably are lots of different colours and cultures) should not be in this position of power if she repeatedly says things which very clearly mark her out as a person who denigrates and discriminates against people on the basis of their skin colour?

She has always struck me as someone who is self centered. I dont know why but I never had her down as part of any sisterhood, black or white. I just get that vibe from her.

The idea that she thinks her child is too good to mix with mine pisses me off no end too.

Its ok for my black boys to negotiate the state system but not hers. I suppose that is because I dont 'go to the wall' for them enough

Its not that I am bitter about that tirade of hers I am or anything.

Fecking cheek particularly considering my circumstances (i.e. bringing up another woman's child who could hardly be described as 'going to the wall').

I should let this go now should I? dont want to

Yes it was a racist comment. A guy called Marc Wadsworth was being interviewd on sky news earlier. Kay Burly was incredulous and so was i. I am still shocked by his comments and dont know how hes got away with them. He claims Abbott meant what she said because its true. Said she only said sorry to keep her job. Said the riots happened because of stop and search, said black people are not and cannot be racist because they dont have the power. Said the tory mp who was at a party with a nazi was worse and she said what she said as freedom of speech. He was ranting racist bile and if the boot had been on the other foot. Burley reminded him that the tory mp was dealt with and was sacked, he said Abbot shouldnt be sacked. He ranted on about Stephen Lawrence and made an utter knob of himself.

She is in a hugely privileged and powerful position as a black female MP highly unusual and she could have done so much good with her position but she has made a mess of it all because she is all about her and not much else

Fair point, worldgonecrazy- I just dispute that racism is the same whomever is on the receiving end.

Moondog- all is well, save for 'flu and general meh. Am alarmingly large for 18 weeks, though am the same weight as before I got pg Anyway, to sum up, none of my clothes fit, I can't wear heels and I'm knackered

How are you?

thunderboltsandlightning I agree with you.

Chomp chomp.

moondog loved the article too.

Come on Diane, bugger off.

I feel that Diane Abbott let her constituents down when she sent her son to a public school (even though as a mother i understood her reasons for doing so.)
I do have issues with her being labelled a 'racist' obviously because of the power and prejudice argument. However, this proves that Twitter is the Devil's spawn and that any politician who uses twitter, must have a screw loose.

I dont think it is a matter of dominance and influence with regards to a definition of racism, that inevitably feeds power.

The white girl calling her baristar neighbour a paki is damaging on a personal level but no more than that on the surface. however voicing that inherent view to friends, neighbours, her children normalsises the attidure that the asian man is all the things they belive him to be, therefore other asian men must also be. therefore it becomes ingraned in a society, passed through generations compounding stereo types.

So in the unfortunate case of stephen lawrence, victoria climbie, and many more, these views are generalised, some individual proffessionals, public servants, police officers, social workers, nursing staff are unable to differentate the individual with the stereotype and so systems fail individuals. That is where the power evolves as a result of dominance, because too often black and other ethnic minorities are well under represented.

very similar to how woman are in the work place etc, the one time dominance of males over females has taken a life time to combat.

and very possibly aslo true, smallwhitecat, of why people compalian about politicians coming from elite schools the dominance of that elite leads to the underrepresentation of others within society.

It is not the same context as a white person saying this about a black person. We live in a context where, after horrific abuses in the past, white people still have disproportionate power, disproportionate media control, disproportionate control of the police and where black people are still murdered in racially motivated attacks. As whites have more power, 'racist' comments against us effect us less badly than racist comments against black people effect them. In addition, her comment is based on a reasonable criticism of white people's racist colonialist tactics.

I think saying that on twitter was ill-considered, but she should not lose her job for this.

not I dont think...I DO* think it is a matter of dominance.....

David Cameron is a prize prat, laughing it off. Wtf, if that was a white mp he wouldnt be laughing it off, he would have sacked them or called for milibean to sack them. They were all very quick to jump on the nazi bandwagon or the Jeremy Clarkson debarkle, milibean did when he hadnt even heard the comments. Still its par for the course i suppose

marmite,
Why is a white person being racist about a black person not the same as a black person being racist about a white person - are you saying that not all races are equal and some races should be patronized as if they do not know better, because you comment comes across as very patronizing. And white people can be victims of racist attacks too. Look at kris Donaldson, that was one of the most horrific killings I have heard of and I do not see how it is not really racist because they targeted a white person not a black person?

I also fail to see how that white woman on the croydon tram was not being racist just because she has no power whatsoever.

racism, sexism, discrimination on the basis of sexuality, wealth, poverty, nationality is wrong, whoever the victim is and whoever the culprit is. saying some racism is Ok depending on the race of the victim and racist is just encouraging racism. Try explaining to a child how racism is wrong on the one hand, but OK on the other depending on the races of those involved.

It is sad that because of Abbott one of the biggest debates on race following the Stephen lawrence trial is not how to end racism and discrimination, but how to justify it. It seems a betrayal of all his mother worked for in the years since his murder.

Excellent news Tether!
Are you doing and S&B splinter group for expectant laydeez>
(Speaking of which, I need help with a coat if you are free...)
I'm good, very good indeed.

Of course DC is laughing. He doesn't need to do owt when dear old Diane is busy loading the gun.

Good wasn't it TBM?

She's an idiot. And every time she gets into trouble, and every time she's challenged to explain herself, she just mumbles and fumbles and doesn't even try.

I do also agree with tethersend though.

She disgusts me. She's hypocritical, grasping and racist, yet she's one of the brigade that seem to want everyone else to behave and even think as they dictate.

I think she should be fired, but only because she is an irritating self-publicist of the highest order. Her Twitter comments don't offend me in the slightest.

Festi....you write a good ole blurb but in one of the Children's services that Victoria Climbie approached, black and ethic minority social workers are well represented and not a minority (worked there). I think it's easy and lazy [not you Festi...just the soundbite] to call institutions racist. London especially is much too complex and diverse to do that. It has never been my experience working for many years in social services. We bend over backwards to reflect on the fairness of decisions. What is hard is making quick decisions in complex situations with limited time and resources. Basing those decisions on racist stereotyping rather than on objective facts is where the issue lies. Unfortunately police officers aren't that intelligent which is where it all went wrong with Steven Lawrence issue. My problem with DA is that she doesn't help improve black or poor peoples lives. She talks shit while youngsters get stabbed, and sends her son to a posh school so he doesn't have to mingle with incredibly damaged children who think the feds are all against them and who stab someone if they look at them in the wrong way.

I think the colonial thing was thought up to get her out of the mess she was in and it was talking about more current matters but I could be wrong. The kind of thing you say when you know you have made a boo boo but obviously you try to wriggle out of it.

I am going to sneak in here and wave at Tether and Moondog and say I am not posting in the other place any more as was rumbled by a colleague who recognised my "writing style"... ooops. Hope all well. Tethersend, are you pregnant too? Are you due the same time as Star and I (start June?).

Hello W9-5.
Very nicve to see you.
I saw you were posting but not in usual place.
You are missed. Greatly

I didn't realise you were pregnant too like my other MN cronies.
How lovely!!

I don't think Diane is where she is because of positive discrimination. Whatever anyone else thinks of her, she consistently gets massive majorities in general elections. The only way to be an MP is for enough of your constituents to vote for you, and that happens over and over again for Diane. Her constituents can vote for her for any reason they like, although I doubt her being a black woman is the only reason. It's not like she's the only one on the ballot in Hackney. A lot of her political profile is because she's spent years on the Parliamentary Labour Party 'awkward squad'. People who hold those political views don't have that many champions in Parliament, so she has a profile partially because of that. I don't know that she's the best choice for a shadow cabinet role, though. She strikes me as someone who's better off railing against the system rather than being part of it.

Regarding the racism issue, there's a massive and varied academic and legal discourse about this. The UN definitions are very wide and also encompass discrimination based on nationality. Some people think racism has to also be accompanied by power, meaning that a non-white person can be a prejudiced bigot but not a racist. Both of these views have a lot of strong arguments behind them. I do think there's a difference between the sort of ism that has power behind it and the sort that doesn't, but that doesn't mean that the one that has power behind it is the one that exclusively gets to use the term racism.

Personally, I am not remotely offended by Abbot's remarks. I wouldn't tell anyone else whether they should or shouldn't be, but I don't care. However, one has to wonder whether someone capable of doing something so daft is well suited to the shadow Cabinet. I think Diane is better at the role she'd carved out for herself before.

I don't think she could say or do anything that would change my mind about her after the school thing. As she said herself, it was indefensible.