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Original poster

BREAKING NEWS: P&G win gold on the mumsnet family awards (which they sponsor)

612 replies

iloveberries · 03/11/2011 14:25

Anyone else a bit cynical about this and think that P&G have basically 'bought' the award. My best friend and husband used to work there (how i met him) and I can guarantee they are anything BUT family friendly to work for!!!

OP posts:

MindtheGappp · 04/11/2011 20:49

Well, your choice is to accept what I say at face value (which is remarkably consistent with Vicki's findings) or you can ignore it. Telling me I am on wacky backyard, or whatever, is not helpful.

If I were to say I was an employee, what would be the reaction? Predictably, it would be one where my POV was obviously biased. It's a no-win situation - think about it. What is not particularly credible is the whole friend of a friend thing. What a strange nettle to grasp.

I am pretty sure I have a friend of a friend who works for P&G and is ecstatically happy with her child care break, paid pat leave for her hubby, emergency childcare, and meetings after 9.30am. There you go!

josephinebonaparte · 04/11/2011 20:52

Mindthegapp's style and intonation seems completely different today. I must be imagining things.

MindtheGappp · 04/11/2011 20:53

There you go, joseph, another personal attack. Why not talk about the issues? I guarantee they are more interesting than me.

ScroobiousPip · 04/11/2011 20:55

I agree, I don't actually give a lot of weight to reports of a 'friend of a friend'. Now, if someone was to come on and say they currently work for P&G and their experience has been really good etc etc, I'd likely give that a lot of weight. It would depend on their position to some degree - the CE is hardly going to criticize his/her own company, but your average employee, yes, I would certainly listen to.

CalatalieSisters · 04/11/2011 20:55

Pearson also got a gold award, and they have ads on MN, product review threads on MN, and content written for MN's education pages (not directly advertising Pearson products but clearly with the hope of positioning Pearson in readers' minds as a salient supplier of educational resources). I'm sure that the assessments for the awards are independent in the ways specified, but it does really seem a bit as if entering the Family Friendly thing is just a way of adding value to a multi-stranded marketing relationship with MN. It all just seems so blurry. Advertising that's not advertising.

Ponders · 04/11/2011 20:56

If I were to say I was an employee, what would be the reaction? Predictably, it would be one where my POV was obviously biased

biased, yes, but at least honestly & straightforwardly biased, & a more valid opinion for that, actually

rather than one where poster obviously has masses of insider knowledge but attempts to pose as an impartial observer - cf architien

josephinebonaparte · 04/11/2011 20:58

How is that a personal attack? I didn't say anything negative. Maybe I meant you sounded different in a positive way.

josephinebonaparte · 04/11/2011 21:00

And I've been trying to tease out " the issues" all day.

WallowedInFlies · 04/11/2011 21:00

it's not rocket science that for ones opinions and statements to have any weight whatsover you have to say what they're based on otherwise it's meaningless.

debate doesn't mean stating an opinion, refusing to say what that is based on or what your sources are and insisting everyone takes seriously your opinion and debates it even though you refuse to contextualise it.

MindtheGappp · 04/11/2011 21:01

Wanting to know more about my personal situation is nothing more than voyeurism.

Just deal with the facts. Treat them as hypotheticals. There is more than enough meat here without worrying about who said what.

KatieMiddIeton · 04/11/2011 21:02

I don't think you're giving MNers fair credit MTG. You assume a prejudice without giving us the opportunity to prove you wrong. Yes there's always the odd stupid poster, but the vast majority are sane, sensible and reasonable. Give us the credit we deserve - you wouldn't hang out here if it weren't true.

You used to work for them no? Hence the reference to your pension? Fine. So we can qualify your comments as direct experience and you feel a lot of loyalty to your former employer. I think most would respect your contribution but they were quite rightly confused and disconcerted by your lack of context.

WallowedInFlies · 04/11/2011 21:03

you're being deliberately obtuse now. if you state things people want to know how you know them (eg are your sources good, what is your evidence) and do you have an invested interest (especially if you are very dogmatic and aggressive about your viewpoint). that's no voyeurism.

MindtheGappp · 04/11/2011 21:05

If I refuse to contextualise my opinion, the that should be respected. That means it should simply fizzle away to nothing. It is not me who reacts to my opinion.

There is an irony here that very few people actually do have validated opinions yet keep on postin'. I will try not to take this personally j/k.

Itsjustafleshwound · 04/11/2011 21:05

But you haven't given us anything to debate - you have just provided a list!

MindtheGappp · 04/11/2011 21:08

Debate that list then!

Is is true (ie does the company deliver).
Are the initiatives valid/important?
What is missing from the list?

Surely that is more important than trying to figure out my career history or who my sugar daddy is?

WallowedInFlies · 04/11/2011 21:12

"it is true"

you don't see a problem with this? how do you know it is true? what evidence are you offering? do you have personal experience you are drawing on or experiences of friends (secondary sources) etc.

Itsjustafleshwound · 04/11/2011 21:13

How can you debate a list?? You can debate an issue but I think the real issue is not more the understanding of how and why P&G got the award!

MNHQ

Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 21:14

This really is a super interesting debate. I hope everyone carries on being engaged in the Family Friendly programme shouting at us to get it better and highlighting where companies are liar liar pants on fires because there hasn't been much serious debate about these issues for a long time. I've been involved in FF policy for 10 years and I thought we'd never move on from baby changing facilities and toilets (important though those are!)

It's really difficult to describe adequately how the whole thing worked on a thread - I wish I could sit and go through all the data and findings with you all. The reality was that when we tried to get companies interested in this lots of them wouldn't get involved. We worked really hard for 8 months trying to persuade companies to join and we managed to get 3. Eventually, three of us were out there talking to companies and trying to get them to believe that this was important and that if they were prepared to let us audit them and see what their family friendly credentials were it would be worthwhile. Yes commercially but if we can't persuade corporates that being good to families makes good business sense we're never going to win. I truly think that a over time, people will look to see whether a company is family friendly just like people look to see what green credentials a company has. Infact, I'm cross that it isn't available already. I want a family friendly kitemark! BUT....we had to start somewhere, with something we could do, we could get companies involved in and then we could start to create change from the inside and the outside. God I sound pompous don't I? Sorry. I just mean that it might not have been perfect but there was rigour. They are now being scrutinised. We'll do more next year because the award will have more value - this year none of the companies knew whether anyone would give a sod. Will stop going on now. Not usually on the boards and now I can't stop :)

MindtheGappp · 04/11/2011 21:16

You can try! Much more interesting than passing judgment about me personally, however flattering that might be for me.

Don't be defeatist. Come up with what you think an ideal company would be like and the compare it to P&G and any other company you can think of.

Itsjustafleshwound · 04/11/2011 21:17

But this is such a subjective thing - how can something like 'parent friendliness' be quantified and then narrowed down into Gold, Silver and Bronze?

The evidence is at best anecdotal and of-the-minute : wait until the next round of redundancies and profit warnings hits the industry ...

Ponders · 04/11/2011 21:18

Is is true (ie does the company deliver)
Are the initiatives valid/important?
What is missing from the list?

how the fuck would we know? we don't work for them!

Itsjustafleshwound · 04/11/2011 21:19

You seem to believe that there is a one-size-fits-all scenario - what works in one industry or with one set of employees doesn't necessarily translates or works for another ...

MindtheGappp · 04/11/2011 21:20

Keep going, Vicki!

WallowedInFlies · 04/11/2011 21:22

so three companies and gold silver and bronze awards. certainly puts it into context.

Ponders · 04/11/2011 21:25

mtg, why do you keep ignoring perfectly reasonable arguments?
why do you keep refusing to acknowledge that people need to know the source of your information before they can engage in an intelligent discussion?

how can we possibly talk about what P&G may or may not provide without knowing why you think they provide what you say they provide?

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