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Original poster

Dale Farm Eviction

720 replies

niceguy2 · 12/10/2011 17:43

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15163750

It seems sanity has prevailed. Let's hope there are no more delays and the site is cleared ASAP

OP posts:
Fifis25StottieCakes · 20/10/2011 20:02

heres a link for you talkinpeace

www.grtleeds.co.uk/information/raceIssues.html

i think i have already linked upthread by the way

moondog · 20/10/2011 20:02

'They would travel if they could park up and use other sites.'

I see Fifi. And the powers that be are meant to run around accommodationg them and their children unti lthey decide to take off eh?

'They now have to try and educate their children and a lot of them do.'

How noble! Where are the medals?

'They cant send the kids to school when they are parked up in laybys'

But they can if one a specially designated site? Eh?

Fifi, you make some interesting points. But then you spoil it all by coming out with things that are plain silly.

Haggyoldclothbatspus · 20/10/2011 20:04

Fifi. Unless you can provide evidence about every planning application issued in the uk, and the % of apps from gypsys and non gypsys with regards to wether those applications are inside or close to the boundaries of the planning guidelines and have a chance of being passed vs those which are way beyond those boundaries and will in all likelihood never be passed, then it is a pointless argument. It's very likely IMO that the majority of traveller apps are bound to be for projects like Dale farm, or similar, change of use from farmland to residential, whereas the majority of non gypsy apps are likely to be for extensions and outbuildings. It's not rocket science to see what will be rejected and what will be passed! But it does invalidate the % argument.

moondog · 20/10/2011 20:04

Ooh I can't wait to dig into the 'support pack' designed in conjunction with community officers Fifi.
Sounds like essential reading.

Wonder who paid for it?

mathanxiety · 20/10/2011 20:08

When you compare what you see as the positive attributes of other groups 'we' (is this the Royal We?) tolerate in Southampton with the Travellers, implying by your comparison that the Travellers are exactly the opposite, when you claim by comparison that their businesses are not 'legit', when you claim they are all arrogant, unclean and impolite, then you are posting a racist post.

(And I bet there are plenty of Pole-haters in Southampton, lots of muttering about 'taking our jobs', 'filling up the schools', 'speaking Polish'...)

mathanxiety · 20/10/2011 20:10

The 90% figure is widely accepted, even in LA and government sponsored publications, Haggy.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 20/10/2011 20:18

13.07 link

click on highlighted link and read the whole report

onagar · 20/10/2011 20:22

They were doing something illegal and we stopped them. Some people got violent and we arrested them. That's what we do with criminals.

Those posters claiming that some laws shouldn't apply to some races are themselves racist. It's sad that you can't look at people without thinking about their race. Most people have moved on from that kind of thing.

btw one of the activists said something about dale farm being remembered forever. I think most of us will have forgotten about it by next Thursday.

onagar · 20/10/2011 20:26

The 90% figure is widely accepted, even in LA and government sponsored publications.

Since the claim is meaningless without defining the terms it's impossible for it to be accepted. You may as well claim that "apples are 90% bigger" and say that is accepted. Only by loons ffs.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 20/10/2011 20:29

maybe moon, if you read about these things and educated yourself on a topic before posting you would have something interesting to say instead of the same old, same old.

You do know you are incredibly boring

you still havent told me what a peopel is yet but ask me a never ending tirade of questions. The answers are all there

you have more or less called me illiterate and continue to take the piss. The thing is, you dont sound too shit hot yourself

mathanxiety · 20/10/2011 20:29

'We' Onagar. Is that you and some mob with pitchforks?

onagar · 20/10/2011 20:33

I live in a country and I am part of it. I guess you live in a cave and hate it all don't you. All those millions of people maliciously not doing what you say and disagreeing with you. It must be awful for you.

mathanxiety · 20/10/2011 20:34

You crack me up.

whomovedmychocolate · 20/10/2011 20:43

Actually to pick up on something mathanxiety said upthread, she is right about the racism thing - it's not about skin colour. There is, sadly, a lot of casual racism directed towards eastern Europeans in the UK.

And I recognise both irish travellers and romany gypsies as distinct ethnic minorities. But there are literally hundreds of minority groups in the UK. They all have to comply with our laws. It's not about wanting to, it's a compulsory thing. Like wearing clothes in public. I don't think it's racist to expect that.

mathanxiety · 20/10/2011 20:49

Not one bit, I agree.

But calling them all criminals and whooping when a group is evicted is distinctly unworthy of law abiding citizens.

Haggyoldclothbatspus · 20/10/2011 20:50

The 90% figure is widely accepted. But its also widely accepted that its bad luck to open an umbrella in the house. Still doesnt make it a fact. Unless there are the figures and statistics to back it up, it's just a number. And it's virtually impossible to come up with the figures and statistics unless you take every single application into account.

mathanxiety · 20/10/2011 20:52

Are you saying someone just made it up then?

Haggyoldclothbatspus · 20/10/2011 21:00

What would happen if the laws of this country were just abandoned? If everyone could just do as they pleased? This isn't a racist issue. It's about the law. As I've said already, it's been turned into a racist issue by lawyers, supporters and the media.
It wasn't a racist issue when a Hindu community a while back were told that they had to slaughter their sacred bull because it had TB. It was a legal issue.
It wouldn't matter if the Dale Farm travellers were black, white or sky blue pink. They are breaking the law, and refusing to compromise!

Haggyoldclothbatspus · 20/10/2011 21:05

No. I'm not saying its made up. I'm just saying that it is a impossible statistic. Yes. I'm sure 90% of traveller applications get turned down, but you can't use it as a defence unless you can prove that they are making exactly the same applications as non travellers and there is definite bias. And that is fairly impossible.
And fwiw, anyone Can make up a static. How about this: approx 100% of married women have a husband as opposed to 0% of unmarried women. True, but pointless!

Original poster
niceguy2 · 20/10/2011 21:07

Someone has to address the problems the travellers face in finding legal sites

Actually on this one I agree with you. But we don't do it whilst they are refusing to move on from an illegal site. That's the wrong signal to send out and if you do, then all you are doing is giving into blackmail. Once they've gone, then perhaps its time to debate this.

But you do it from a position of strength, not weakness. And I mean that from the point of view of the council/govt. A weak council/govt serves noone.

OP posts:
Haggyoldclothbatspus · 20/10/2011 22:19

Ive just collected my son from the town centre. I parked in a side street, and as I sat watching for DS, I spotted a mobile soup kitchen set up there. The sight of all those homeless people standing there in the freezing cold really upset me.
Its a shame that all the supporters of Dale Farm arent out doing something worthwhile, instead of wasting time and resources on such a pointless issue!

Fifis25StottieCakes · 20/10/2011 22:39

How do you know what charities people support huggy, you dont have to be on the streets to help.

I bet i do a lot more for 'charity' than you.

Obviously as you were so upset you lent a helping hand instead of giving them pitying looks before getting in your warm car and driving off Hmm.

Haggyoldclothbatspus · 20/10/2011 22:49

I'll refer you to the first part of your post!
You may or may not do more for charity than me, but on the other hand, I don't waste peoples time and money chaining myself to railings to help law breakers.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 20/10/2011 22:58

neither do i and i support the residents of dale farm. All the people who support dale farm dont chin themselves to raillings with bike chains. IMO they should never have let them get involved. They made the situation worse.

Some of them homeless people may have broken the law. Maybe they are homeless as they cant get social housing as the travellers are being forced into it. The travellers have repeatedly said they do not want to take housing stock from people who need it more than them.

You do realise that the gypsies who have been given council properties have effectively took a place in a homeless hostel or a flat which could have been used for someone who is actually homeless and on the street freezing.

Haggyoldclothbatspus · 20/10/2011 23:07

Yes, or the countless millions spent on clearing the site could have been spent on hostels and community housing.